Comments on: Saturday, 15 May 1909 http://airminded.org/2009/05/15/saturday-15-may-1909/ Airpower and British society, 1908-1941 Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:27:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Airminded · Post-blogging the 1909 scareships: thoughts and conclusions http://airminded.org/2009/05/15/saturday-15-may-1909/comment-page-1/#comment-106486 Airminded · Post-blogging the 1909 scareships: thoughts and conclusions Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:36:49 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1677#comment-106486 [...] stage, though it seems to have been divided as to whether a British aeronaut was responsible or an airship flying off a German warship. It was only when two separate sightings of the airship took place in South Wales — by dock [...] [...] stage, though it seems to have been divided as to whether a British aeronaut was responsible or an airship flying off a German warship. It was only when two separate sightings of the airship took place in South Wales — by dock [...]

]]> By: Airminded · Wednesday, 2 June 1909 http://airminded.org/2009/05/15/saturday-15-may-1909/comment-page-1/#comment-106268 Airminded · Wednesday, 2 June 1909 Tue, 02 Jun 2009 05:44:20 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1677#comment-106268 [...] German balloon which was taking part in the Hurlingham race attempted, in its descent, to demolish an Englishman’s Home near Bow, not a single newspaper mobilised its war [...] [...] German balloon which was taking part in the Hurlingham race attempted, in its descent, to demolish an Englishman’s Home near Bow, not a single newspaper mobilised its war [...]

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2009/05/15/saturday-15-may-1909/comment-page-1/#comment-105588 Brett Holman Sun, 17 May 2009 10:01:30 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1677#comment-105588 Thanks, Erik. I was thinking more of naval or even military construction than aircraft anyway -- the more Britain seems threatened, the more guns and battleships would be needed to defend it. Thanks, Erik. I was thinking more of naval or even military construction than aircraft anyway — the more Britain seems threatened, the more guns and battleships would be needed to defend it.

]]> By: Airminded · Monday, 17 May 1909 http://airminded.org/2009/05/15/saturday-15-may-1909/comment-page-1/#comment-105585 Airminded · Monday, 17 May 1909 Sun, 17 May 2009 07:53:09 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1677#comment-105585 [...] but are at a loss to explain the sightings.1 The Standard notes the theory, outlined on Saturday, that the airship was launched from a German warship, but thinks it ‘wiser’ to assume [...] [...] but are at a loss to explain the sightings.1 The Standard notes the theory, outlined on Saturday, that the airship was launched from a German warship, but thinks it ‘wiser’ to assume [...]

]]> By: Erik Lund http://airminded.org/2009/05/15/saturday-15-may-1909/comment-page-1/#comment-105566 Erik Lund Sat, 16 May 2009 18:07:35 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1677#comment-105566 Plenty of people thought that they would be making 'planes out of iron and steel. And 1909 is the peak of one of the "the Germans make better steel than us" waves. Jellicoe, of all people, seems to have presented a report to the effect that the German navy was about to break out to all electric steel at some point in 1909. With that kind of thing going on in the background, it would be no wonder if the IIS were a little skeptical about popular enthusiasms. That said, I don't know. The JIIS didn't have convenient editorial pages, like _The Engineer_, where you could check these things out. Plenty of people thought that they would be making ‘planes out of iron and steel. And 1909 is the peak of one of the “the Germans make better steel than us” waves. Jellicoe, of all people, seems to have presented a report to the effect that the German navy was about to break out to all electric steel at some point in 1909. With that kind of thing going on in the background, it would be no wonder if the IIS were a little skeptical about popular enthusiasms.
That said, I don’t know. The JIIS didn’t have convenient editorial pages, like _The Engineer_, where you could check these things out.

]]> By: Chris Williams http://airminded.org/2009/05/15/saturday-15-may-1909/comment-page-1/#comment-105562 Chris Williams Sat, 16 May 2009 16:15:27 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1677#comment-105562 Iron and steel are good for making ships with, but for aircraft you need wood or duralmin . . . so the ISI may have had good commerical reasons for playing down the air threat. Iron and steel are good for making ships with, but for aircraft you need wood or duralmin . . . so the ISI may have had good commerical reasons for playing down the air threat.

]]> By: Gavin http://airminded.org/2009/05/15/saturday-15-may-1909/comment-page-1/#comment-105549 Gavin Sat, 16 May 2009 12:09:20 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1677#comment-105549 Excellent. Looks like Nigel Watson has already been through the Grimsby News and found all the relevant stuff so I won't have to. Also I never knew there was a Territorial artillery barracks in Victoria Street. Sadly many of the people of Grimsby are still unduly suspicious of foreigners... Excellent. Looks like Nigel Watson has already been through the Grimsby News and found all the relevant stuff so I won’t have to. Also I never knew there was a Territorial artillery barracks in Victoria Street. Sadly many of the people of Grimsby are still unduly suspicious of foreigners…

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2009/05/15/saturday-15-may-1909/comment-page-1/#comment-105531 Brett Holman Sat, 16 May 2009 06:01:57 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1677#comment-105531 Gavin: There are a few more rumours regarding the telegraph station in the <a href="http://magonia.haaan.com/2009/airships-and-invaders/" rel="nofollow"><em>Magonia</em> article</a> noted in my introductory post. Also a question was asked in <a href="http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1909/may/19/attack-on-watchman-humberstone" rel="nofollow">Parliament</a> about the incident, and the response there was that the break-in was by employees of the company which built the station! Alex: Yeah, boy scouts for adults is my impression of the Legion. They're still around and nowadays seem to do good charitable works, although there also seems to still be a lot of dressing up in military uniforms, claiming ridiculously high military ranks and awarding each other non-existent or unearned medals. The Frontiersmen had an interest in airpower, early on: the Canadian branch wanted to get into <a href="http://www.frontiersmenhistorian.info/canada3.htm" rel="nofollow">aerial scouting</a> (ca. 1913). The founder of the whole thing, Roger Pocock (also a Canadian) thought that the phantom airships were built and launched by German spies hiding in Britain, and in 1910 he published an airpower novel set in 1980. Hmmm. Should hunt that down sometime. Erik: I can't say I'm very familiar with them! What would you say was the general ISI attitude towards armaments before 1914? I would have thought pretty keen, but on the basis of this single report their members were quite happy to scoff at spy and invasion scares which ought to have to have been grist to their (steel) mills ... Gavin:

There are a few more rumours regarding the telegraph station in the Magonia article noted in my introductory post. Also a question was asked in Parliament about the incident, and the response there was that the break-in was by employees of the company which built the station!

Alex:

Yeah, boy scouts for adults is my impression of the Legion. They’re still around and nowadays seem to do good charitable works, although there also seems to still be a lot of dressing up in military uniforms, claiming ridiculously high military ranks and awarding each other non-existent or unearned medals.

The Frontiersmen had an interest in airpower, early on: the Canadian branch wanted to get into aerial scouting (ca. 1913). The founder of the whole thing, Roger Pocock (also a Canadian) thought that the phantom airships were built and launched by German spies hiding in Britain, and in 1910 he published an airpower novel set in 1980. Hmmm. Should hunt that down sometime.

Erik:

I can’t say I’m very familiar with them! What would you say was the general ISI attitude towards armaments before 1914? I would have thought pretty keen, but on the basis of this single report their members were quite happy to scoff at spy and invasion scares which ought to have to have been grist to their (steel) mills …

]]> By: Erik Lund http://airminded.org/2009/05/15/saturday-15-may-1909/comment-page-1/#comment-105509 Erik Lund Fri, 15 May 2009 18:10:26 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1677#comment-105509 It's an odd age when the Globe has a correspondent at the Iron and Steel Institute meeting. Those guys are usually pretty heavy going even for an engineering society. I guess they knew when to bring in a good speaker and liven up all the place, but I wish there were a few more talks like this to liven up the articles when I was going through the Jour. ISI (Well worth doing, BTW. There's some eye-opening stuff buried in there.) It’s an odd age when the Globe has a correspondent at the Iron and Steel Institute meeting. Those guys are usually pretty heavy going even for an engineering society. I guess they knew when to bring in a good speaker and liven up all the place, but I wish there were a few more talks like this to liven up the articles when I was going through the Jour. ISI
(Well worth doing, BTW. There’s some eye-opening stuff buried in there.)

]]> By: Alex http://airminded.org/2009/05/15/saturday-15-may-1909/comment-page-1/#comment-105507 Alex Fri, 15 May 2009 17:23:19 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1677#comment-105507 No discussion involving the League of Frontiersmen can even begin without <a href="http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=8811/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=0.html" rel="nofollow">this hilarious thread on ARRSE</a>. No discussion involving the League of Frontiersmen can even begin without this hilarious thread on ARRSE.

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