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	<title>Comments on: There were giants in the earth in those days</title>
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	<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/31/there-were-giants-in-the-earth-in-those-days/</link>
	<description>Airpower and British society, 1908-1941</description>
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		<title>By: JDK</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/31/there-were-giants-in-the-earth-in-those-days/comment-page-1/#comment-105209</link>
		<dc:creator>JDK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 08:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1476#comment-105209</guid>
		<description>Ah, the &lt;i&gt;other&lt;/i&gt; kind of vanity publishing.  Cheap, moi?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, the <i>other</i> kind of vanity publishing.  Cheap, moi?</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/31/there-were-giants-in-the-earth-in-those-days/comment-page-1/#comment-104987</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 05:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1476#comment-104987</guid>
		<description>Ideally, yes, people would want to read it! But turning the thesis into a book is also a good career move -- as in, can help you get a job -- regardless of whether anyone actually reads the book or not. So it&#039;s not only point-scoring in a negative sense but a positive sense too ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ideally, yes, people would want to read it! But turning the thesis into a book is also a good career move &#8212; as in, can help you get a job &#8212; regardless of whether anyone actually reads the book or not. So it&#8217;s not only point-scoring in a negative sense but a positive sense too &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: JDK</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/31/there-were-giants-in-the-earth-in-those-days/comment-page-1/#comment-104693</link>
		<dc:creator>JDK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1476#comment-104693</guid>
		<description>Good points. 

Just to be awkward a moment, isn&#039;t the reason for publishing something because people really &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; to read it?  I mean peer review is a pre-publication qualitative validation, but I&#039;m not interested in just impressing peers (nice though that is) but laying out a &#039;story&#039; I hope is of interest to others, pushing knowledge around to anyone prepared to invest a bit in reading it.  Rather than counter-point scoring in an ivory tower with the three others in the &#039;field&#039;.  But then I&#039;m not an academic; I just have one at home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points. </p>
<p>Just to be awkward a moment, isn&#8217;t the reason for publishing something because people really <i>want</i> to read it?  I mean peer review is a pre-publication qualitative validation, but I&#8217;m not interested in just impressing peers (nice though that is) but laying out a &#8217;story&#8217; I hope is of interest to others, pushing knowledge around to anyone prepared to invest a bit in reading it.  Rather than counter-point scoring in an ivory tower with the three others in the &#8216;field&#8217;.  But then I&#8217;m not an academic; I just have one at home.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/31/there-were-giants-in-the-earth-in-those-days/comment-page-1/#comment-104679</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1476#comment-104679</guid>
		<description>From the theses-to-books I&#039;ve seen, I&#039;d definitely agree that good editors and indexers are vital! I suppose the take-home-message is that the book version will have to add something to the thesis version (over and above nice binding
and so on) to be viable. Which is probably fair enough anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the theses-to-books I&#8217;ve seen, I&#8217;d definitely agree that good editors and indexers are vital! I suppose the take-home-message is that the book version will have to add something to the thesis version (over and above nice binding<br />
and so on) to be viable. Which is probably fair enough anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Lester</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/31/there-were-giants-in-the-earth-in-those-days/comment-page-1/#comment-104570</link>
		<dc:creator>Lester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1476#comment-104570</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d ask, but I don&#039;t think anyone I work with now is in the business of thesis publishing, I&#039;m afraid.

For us rapacious villains here in the commercial world, a major motive for publishing something as a book is, unfortunately, to sell it - for academia above the &quot;university set text&quot; level, libraries become significant buyers. Libraries are always strapped for cash (and space) and usually don&#039;t pay the laser printer bill themselves, so will probably not be very eager to buy costly tomes when they can direct readers to PDFs. This bodes rather ill for getting anything in print at all (or making a pile in academic publishing) unless there&#039;s a factor I&#039;m missing.

On the other hand, it seems to me that the more equation-heavy material on arXiv is the material to which a often publisher does least work and yet has traditionally extracted very good money from, which has always seemed a little iffy to me when so much of it is publicly funded. On the other hand, even in some of those areas an awful lot of editorial work is needed to make a book, and it would be a big loss if it were to go (such as when the authors write in a second language). I&#039;ve never worked in academic humanities publishing, but am under the impression that an editor and professional indexer are still considered pretty vital - long may that last.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d ask, but I don&#8217;t think anyone I work with now is in the business of thesis publishing, I&#8217;m afraid.</p>
<p>For us rapacious villains here in the commercial world, a major motive for publishing something as a book is, unfortunately, to sell it &#8211; for academia above the &#8220;university set text&#8221; level, libraries become significant buyers. Libraries are always strapped for cash (and space) and usually don&#8217;t pay the laser printer bill themselves, so will probably not be very eager to buy costly tomes when they can direct readers to PDFs. This bodes rather ill for getting anything in print at all (or making a pile in academic publishing) unless there&#8217;s a factor I&#8217;m missing.</p>
<p>On the other hand, it seems to me that the more equation-heavy material on arXiv is the material to which a often publisher does least work and yet has traditionally extracted very good money from, which has always seemed a little iffy to me when so much of it is publicly funded. On the other hand, even in some of those areas an awful lot of editorial work is needed to make a book, and it would be a big loss if it were to go (such as when the authors write in a second language). I&#8217;ve never worked in academic humanities publishing, but am under the impression that an editor and professional indexer are still considered pretty vital &#8211; long may that last.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/31/there-were-giants-in-the-earth-in-those-days/comment-page-1/#comment-104239</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 23:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1476#comment-104239</guid>
		<description>Yeah, that&#039;s true, it&#039;s not like publishers can avoid trying to adapt to the existence of the internet. (Though some industries are trying their best ...) Re: arXiv, on the one hand it would seem to undermine the traditional academic publishing model, though on the other there was a pre-existing tradition of wide dissemination of paper preprints on the physical sciences, which doesn&#039;t seem to be true in the humanities. So perhaps the cultural shift with arXiv was smaller than the technological shift?

Though I guess one difference is, what value does publishing a thesis add to it? When a journal publishes a paper which was already available on arXiv, it&#039;s adding peer review and the legitimacy that confers. But a thesis has already been peer-reviewed, so (aside from the opportunity to revise it further) the main point of publishing it as a book would be to make it available to a wider audience (or indeed to any audience at all!) So if theses are going be automatically PDFed and put on the web, that function becomes much less attractive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that&#8217;s true, it&#8217;s not like publishers can avoid trying to adapt to the existence of the internet. (Though some industries are trying their best &#8230;) Re: arXiv, on the one hand it would seem to undermine the traditional academic publishing model, though on the other there was a pre-existing tradition of wide dissemination of paper preprints on the physical sciences, which doesn&#8217;t seem to be true in the humanities. So perhaps the cultural shift with arXiv was smaller than the technological shift?</p>
<p>Though I guess one difference is, what value does publishing a thesis add to it? When a journal publishes a paper which was already available on arXiv, it&#8217;s adding peer review and the legitimacy that confers. But a thesis has already been peer-reviewed, so (aside from the opportunity to revise it further) the main point of publishing it as a book would be to make it available to a wider audience (or indeed to any audience at all!) So if theses are going be automatically PDFed and put on the web, that function becomes much less attractive.</p>
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		<title>By: Lester</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/31/there-were-giants-in-the-earth-in-those-days/comment-page-1/#comment-104176</link>
		<dc:creator>Lester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 13:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1476#comment-104176</guid>
		<description>Bah! Humbug. These internet generation scholars, they want it all and they want it now. When I went to university, the postgrads&#039; research was physically locked in a giant metal cage in a dark corner of the library, and you had to beg for it.

(...and we&#039;re talking about the 2000s here, I&#039;m a young &#039;un)

Seriously, this is wonderful stuff, apart from the publisher worry.

I know there was a wave of publishing contracts that specified no internet content, but it also seems that publishers are having to get over that now in most fields, so surely academic publishing will have to catch up. (I&#039;m not an academic - I work in publishing - but I don&#039;t work in scientific any more so I don&#039;t know what they do about things that have been on arXiv... )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bah! Humbug. These internet generation scholars, they want it all and they want it now. When I went to university, the postgrads&#8217; research was physically locked in a giant metal cage in a dark corner of the library, and you had to beg for it.</p>
<p>(&#8230;and we&#8217;re talking about the 2000s here, I&#8217;m a young &#8216;un)</p>
<p>Seriously, this is wonderful stuff, apart from the publisher worry.</p>
<p>I know there was a wave of publishing contracts that specified no internet content, but it also seems that publishers are having to get over that now in most fields, so surely academic publishing will have to catch up. (I&#8217;m not an academic &#8211; I work in publishing &#8211; but I don&#8217;t work in scientific any more so I don&#8217;t know what they do about things that have been on arXiv&#8230; )</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/31/there-were-giants-in-the-earth-in-those-days/comment-page-1/#comment-103773</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1476#comment-103773</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know -- why would any university want people to actually read the research their postgrads have produced, when it could gather dust in a dark corner of a library instead?

More seriously, I do wonder if academic publishers might be more reluctant to publish books from PhDs if the latter are easily accessible online ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know &#8212; why would any university want people to actually read the research their postgrads have produced, when it could gather dust in a dark corner of a library instead?</p>
<p>More seriously, I do wonder if academic publishers might be more reluctant to publish books from PhDs if the latter are easily accessible online &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: JDK</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/31/there-were-giants-in-the-earth-in-those-days/comment-page-1/#comment-103664</link>
		<dc:creator>JDK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 12:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1476#comment-103664</guid>
		<description>Just thought I&#039;d have a look at the coverage of the &#039;top ten&#039; (always good for an argument).  As well as Oxbridge being missing, also missing are Nottingham Uni, LSE, St Andrews, and Durham isn&#039;t offering &#039;open access&#039;.  Most of the usual suspects are participating to be fair, and when Oxbridge arrives at the C19, I&#039;m sure they&#039;ll see the benefits of telegraph and Morse and join in too.  As ever in the British Uni system, patchy and separatist at the top.

Neat thing though!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just thought I&#8217;d have a look at the coverage of the &#8216;top ten&#8217; (always good for an argument).  As well as Oxbridge being missing, also missing are Nottingham Uni, LSE, St Andrews, and Durham isn&#8217;t offering &#8216;open access&#8217;.  Most of the usual suspects are participating to be fair, and when Oxbridge arrives at the C19, I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;ll see the benefits of telegraph and Morse and join in too.  As ever in the British Uni system, patchy and separatist at the top.</p>
<p>Neat thing though!</p>
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		<title>By: Lester</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/31/there-were-giants-in-the-earth-in-those-days/comment-page-1/#comment-103655</link>
		<dc:creator>Lester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1476#comment-103655</guid>
		<description>Just noticed Chris&#039; remark that &quot;They didn’t have strong arms, they had, in the main, fiancees&quot; and am amused.

This fiance can safely report that equality has finally arrived in that area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just noticed Chris&#8217; remark that &#8220;They didn’t have strong arms, they had, in the main, fiancees&#8221; and am amused.</p>
<p>This fiance can safely report that equality has finally arrived in that area.</p>
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