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	<title>Comments on: The death ray men</title>
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	<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/27/the-death-ray-men/</link>
	<description>Airpower and British society, 1908-1941</description>
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		<title>By: Airminded &#183; A Japanese death ray?</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/27/the-death-ray-men/comment-page-1/#comment-128231</link>
		<dc:creator>Airminded &#183; A Japanese death ray?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 13:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1432#comment-128231</guid>
		<description>[...] anyone came close to creating a death ray weapon by the end of the Second World War, it was the Japanese army. It wouldn&#8217;t have helped [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] anyone came close to creating a death ray weapon by the end of the Second World War, it was the Japanese army. It wouldn&#8217;t have helped [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Airminded &#183; Bluff and bluster</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/27/the-death-ray-men/comment-page-1/#comment-106774</link>
		<dc:creator>Airminded &#183; Bluff and bluster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1432#comment-106774</guid>
		<description>[...] brief, no more than a simple statement that the Soviet Union has announced that it has developed a death ray. This prompted a response on 20 January (p. 10) from T. H. Laby, Professor of Natural Philosophy at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] brief, no more than a simple statement that the Soviet Union has announced that it has developed a death ray. This prompted a response on 20 January (p. 10) from T. H. Laby, Professor of Natural Philosophy at [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/27/the-death-ray-men/comment-page-1/#comment-102830</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 08:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1432#comment-102830</guid>
		<description>Thanks: anecdotal, but interesting!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks: anecdotal, but interesting!</p>
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		<title>By: I Davies</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/27/the-death-ray-men/comment-page-1/#comment-102169</link>
		<dc:creator>I Davies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 12:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1432#comment-102169</guid>
		<description>Reference the plausibility of Grindell Mathews&#039; &quot;Death Ray&quot; and almost a first hand account of the ability of the instument to interupt the spark on an internal combustion engine.

As my family were neighbours to HGM, north of Craig-Cefn-Parc, my mother has recollections of him jawing with her grandfather around the kitchen table. Foster interviewed my great aunt as part of his research   and she and I went to a talk given by him, to promote the launch of his book on Grindell Mathews, last Friday (3rd April 2009). 

During an entertaining hour, he relayed one  story of how people driving their cars past his house, on their way to/from  Ammanford, reported experiences of their cars cutting out, for no apparent reason. 
(Is was known that a wing of his isolated property was used as a laboratory).

When talking to my mother later, I repeated several of the &#039;dits&#039; from Foster&#039;s talk, but whe I mentioned the above, she said she could remember her grandfather coming home from Tor Clawdd (Mathews&#039; house) and excitedly telling her of what he had just witnessed -  the cars being stopped! I would guess that this happened @ 200-300 yards, from aerial photographs of the house.

What was not conveyed during the talk was the suspicion  the local community generally had  about him during  the thirties and forties and that he was by enlarge ostracised, primarily because of portrayals of him as a the architypal &#039;mad scientist&#039; with scary machines (Think of Christopher Lloyd in Back to the Future crossed with Flash Gordon) .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reference the plausibility of Grindell Mathews&#8217; &#8220;Death Ray&#8221; and almost a first hand account of the ability of the instument to interupt the spark on an internal combustion engine.</p>
<p>As my family were neighbours to HGM, north of Craig-Cefn-Parc, my mother has recollections of him jawing with her grandfather around the kitchen table. Foster interviewed my great aunt as part of his research   and she and I went to a talk given by him, to promote the launch of his book on Grindell Mathews, last Friday (3rd April 2009). </p>
<p>During an entertaining hour, he relayed one  story of how people driving their cars past his house, on their way to/from  Ammanford, reported experiences of their cars cutting out, for no apparent reason.<br />
(Is was known that a wing of his isolated property was used as a laboratory).</p>
<p>When talking to my mother later, I repeated several of the &#8216;dits&#8217; from Foster&#8217;s talk, but whe I mentioned the above, she said she could remember her grandfather coming home from Tor Clawdd (Mathews&#8217; house) and excitedly telling her of what he had just witnessed &#8211;  the cars being stopped! I would guess that this happened @ 200-300 yards, from aerial photographs of the house.</p>
<p>What was not conveyed during the talk was the suspicion  the local community generally had  about him during  the thirties and forties and that he was by enlarge ostracised, primarily because of portrayals of him as a the architypal &#8216;mad scientist&#8217; with scary machines (Think of Christopher Lloyd in Back to the Future crossed with Flash Gordon) .</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/27/the-death-ray-men/comment-page-1/#comment-101941</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 10:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1432#comment-101941</guid>
		<description>j. del col:

True, same end result, but very different effect and mechanism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>j. del col:</p>
<p>True, same end result, but very different effect and mechanism.</p>
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		<title>By: JDK</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/27/the-death-ray-men/comment-page-1/#comment-101683</link>
		<dc:creator>JDK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1432#comment-101683</guid>
		<description>Dear Chris, I&#039;m no expert on the detail of the Wrights - 1903-1914, or patent law, but it&#039;s unarguable that they did manage to cripple the opportunity for best and brightest in the US - meaning their nation went from world leader to also ran in just over a decade, essentially thanks to them; while everyone else got on with it, AFAIK, patent-legally.  The resulting company of their main litigation - Curtiss-Wright - always reminded me of two heavyweight boxers held up by each other in exhaustion in the ring.

I&#039;m wary of the term &#039;genius&#039; and while their technical achievement which netted Dec 17 1903, they weren&#039;t alone - other also were getting there in terms of inventing the aeroplane.  If they hadn&#039;t existed, it wouldn&#039;t have halted progress - and their direct influence in the era is almost always over-estimated as most disregard their secrecy and litigation.  (Not that detracts from what they did achieve, to be fair.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Chris, I&#8217;m no expert on the detail of the Wrights &#8211; 1903-1914, or patent law, but it&#8217;s unarguable that they did manage to cripple the opportunity for best and brightest in the US &#8211; meaning their nation went from world leader to also ran in just over a decade, essentially thanks to them; while everyone else got on with it, AFAIK, patent-legally.  The resulting company of their main litigation &#8211; Curtiss-Wright &#8211; always reminded me of two heavyweight boxers held up by each other in exhaustion in the ring.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m wary of the term &#8216;genius&#8217; and while their technical achievement which netted Dec 17 1903, they weren&#8217;t alone &#8211; other also were getting there in terms of inventing the aeroplane.  If they hadn&#8217;t existed, it wouldn&#8217;t have halted progress &#8211; and their direct influence in the era is almost always over-estimated as most disregard their secrecy and litigation.  (Not that detracts from what they did achieve, to be fair.)</p>
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		<title>By: j. del col</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/27/the-death-ray-men/comment-page-1/#comment-101561</link>
		<dc:creator>j. del col</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 16:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1432#comment-101561</guid>
		<description>The electromagnetic pulses of nuclear detonations achieve the same result as the proposed death-rays.  They will destroy the electronic components on aircraft. Obviously, their other effects are much worse, but the USAF did spend a lot of money trying to come up with effective ways to &#039;harden&#039; aircraft against such EMP effects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The electromagnetic pulses of nuclear detonations achieve the same result as the proposed death-rays.  They will destroy the electronic components on aircraft. Obviously, their other effects are much worse, but the USAF did spend a lot of money trying to come up with effective ways to &#8216;harden&#8217; aircraft against such EMP effects.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/27/the-death-ray-men/comment-page-1/#comment-101541</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 12:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1432#comment-101541</guid>
		<description>Lester:

Apparently not, it seems not to have cropped up very often. J. B. S. Haldane said something similar in a critique, but not many others did that I&#039;ve come across. Of course, half the so-called inventors had probably never heard of the inverse-square law ...

Erik:

Yes, it&#039;s not that silly, in that context. But the inventors were usually talking about more than a subtle induction of sparks at a distance. There was the ability to kill animals (not by simply zapping them), for example. On the one hand, Grindell Matthews&#039; original experiment is described by Barwell as producing a sort of electrical ray, but then in a riposte to Lord Birkenhead he explicitly states that it&#039;s an electromagnetic, between x-rays and UV, and would have a maximum range of 5-8 miles. Other rays seem to be microwave or radio frequency and so on. There&#039;s no consistency. And besides, most of these people published in the popular press, not in the scientific literature -- there&#039;s no need for them to be particularly scientifically plausible. So while you can pick some threads out and say there was some plausibility there in contemporary engineering terms (and T. F. Wall would be interesting to explore for that), I don&#039;t think that explains the popularity of the idea.

JDK:

And there&#039;s a direct connection between the death ray and RDF, too: Harry Wimperis was one of the Air Ministry&#039;s observers of Grindell Matthew&#039;s setup in 1924, and it was he who asked Watson-Watt in 1935 to see if there really was anything to the possibility of a death ray ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lester:</p>
<p>Apparently not, it seems not to have cropped up very often. J. B. S. Haldane said something similar in a critique, but not many others did that I&#8217;ve come across. Of course, half the so-called inventors had probably never heard of the inverse-square law &#8230;</p>
<p>Erik:</p>
<p>Yes, it&#8217;s not that silly, in that context. But the inventors were usually talking about more than a subtle induction of sparks at a distance. There was the ability to kill animals (not by simply zapping them), for example. On the one hand, Grindell Matthews&#8217; original experiment is described by Barwell as producing a sort of electrical ray, but then in a riposte to Lord Birkenhead he explicitly states that it&#8217;s an electromagnetic, between x-rays and UV, and would have a maximum range of 5-8 miles. Other rays seem to be microwave or radio frequency and so on. There&#8217;s no consistency. And besides, most of these people published in the popular press, not in the scientific literature &#8212; there&#8217;s no need for them to be particularly scientifically plausible. So while you can pick some threads out and say there was some plausibility there in contemporary engineering terms (and T. F. Wall would be interesting to explore for that), I don&#8217;t think that explains the popularity of the idea.</p>
<p>JDK:</p>
<p>And there&#8217;s a direct connection between the death ray and RDF, too: Harry Wimperis was one of the Air Ministry&#8217;s observers of Grindell Matthew&#8217;s setup in 1924, and it was he who asked Watson-Watt in 1935 to see if there really was anything to the possibility of a death ray &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Williams</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/27/the-death-ray-men/comment-page-1/#comment-101442</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 23:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1432#comment-101442</guid>
		<description>Well to be fair, they were litigious precisely because people were nicking their invention. Their failure to negotiate properly might count against one of the utter genius things that they did, but to have it counter balance all three (control in roll, theorising the propellor, learning to be pilots) seems a bit harsh. 

As for Napiers, Eric, have you ever read LK Setwright&#039;s _The Power To Fly_? His homage to the Nomad is a fine bit of prose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well to be fair, they were litigious precisely because people were nicking their invention. Their failure to negotiate properly might count against one of the utter genius things that they did, but to have it counter balance all three (control in roll, theorising the propellor, learning to be pilots) seems a bit harsh. </p>
<p>As for Napiers, Eric, have you ever read LK Setwright&#8217;s _The Power To Fly_? His homage to the Nomad is a fine bit of prose.</p>
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		<title>By: JDK</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2009/03/27/the-death-ray-men/comment-page-1/#comment-101289</link>
		<dc:creator>JDK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 04:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=1432#comment-101289</guid>
		<description>As I&#039;m sure we all know, the death ray experiments led to RDF, (radar) which I suppose is a way of getting the inverse square law to work with you.

Like the stun gun and galactic credits, death rays are a kind of &#039;meta-invention&#039; - everyone knows what they are, they just don&#039;t exist!  Fertile fields for charlatans, but also a way for getting funding for a more odd sounding invention that did work - RDF.

As to the Wrights, all fair comment.  I think their combination of scientific-based endeavour and awareness of their own achievement was compromised by their moral and religious based arrogance, meaning that they were a pain to deal with and expected people to pay big money and take their word for their offer, up front.  It wasn&#039;t long before they&#039;d under-estimated progress and were over-estimating what they had to offer - quite the case study, IMHO.  Meanwhile, as Brett&#039;s said, others just got on with it and left them behind.  Their litigiousness directly crippled US aviation for about a decade - as much against them as their first flight achievement was for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I&#8217;m sure we all know, the death ray experiments led to RDF, (radar) which I suppose is a way of getting the inverse square law to work with you.</p>
<p>Like the stun gun and galactic credits, death rays are a kind of &#8216;meta-invention&#8217; &#8211; everyone knows what they are, they just don&#8217;t exist!  Fertile fields for charlatans, but also a way for getting funding for a more odd sounding invention that did work &#8211; RDF.</p>
<p>As to the Wrights, all fair comment.  I think their combination of scientific-based endeavour and awareness of their own achievement was compromised by their moral and religious based arrogance, meaning that they were a pain to deal with and expected people to pay big money and take their word for their offer, up front.  It wasn&#8217;t long before they&#8217;d under-estimated progress and were over-estimating what they had to offer &#8211; quite the case study, IMHO.  Meanwhile, as Brett&#8217;s said, others just got on with it and left them behind.  Their litigiousness directly crippled US aviation for about a decade &#8211; as much against them as their first flight achievement was for them.</p>
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