Comments on: Phallic symbol envy http://airminded.org/2009/01/15/phallic-symbol-envy/ Airpower and British society, 1908-1941 Fri, 19 Mar 2010 15:41:03 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2009/01/15/phallic-symbol-envy/comment-page-1/#comment-95879 Brett Holman Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:35:06 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1174#comment-95879 Chris: I used Mowthorpe too, but forgot about the non-homegrown airships ... that would increase the total volume a bit. Chris:

I used Mowthorpe too, but forgot about the non-homegrown airships … that would increase the total volume a bit.

]]> By: Lester http://airminded.org/2009/01/15/phallic-symbol-envy/comment-page-1/#comment-95625 Lester Tue, 20 Jan 2009 11:05:22 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1174#comment-95625 Jakob - as for underpowered, I may have gone a step too far in my insecurities ;-) Jakob – as for underpowered, I may have gone a step too far in my insecurities ;-)

]]> By: Jakob http://airminded.org/2009/01/15/phallic-symbol-envy/comment-page-1/#comment-95624 Jakob Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:56:15 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1174#comment-95624 Eta, delta, it's only a small difference... Eta, delta, it’s only a small difference…

]]> By: Chris Williams http://airminded.org/2009/01/15/phallic-symbol-envy/comment-page-1/#comment-95622 Chris Williams Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:23:58 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1174#comment-95622 Dang. I wasn't sure either, but I could think of no really bad puns with 'Delta', which swung it. Now I've looked it up [Mowthorpe 'Battlebags'] I'm sure it's Delta. Eta's first flight was August 1913. By 1913 the _Morning Post_ Lebaudy (yet another example of pre-1914 public subscription airpower) had already been wrecked. On the other hand, the first Astra-Torres had been purchased and arrived in June 1913. Number 4, the Parseval airship, had been brought from Germany also in 1912 and 'delivered in 1913'. More had been ordered, which Parsevals dutifully worked on until, come August 1914, they were finished and duly impressed into the German service. Meanwhile, Vickers were getting a license from Parseval, which they put into action. So - although this kind of 'small cock' photo might have made sense in 1911, by 1913, the UK was moving ahead on a number of fronts (A-T, Parsevals, and the home-grown airships), and there were a lot more waiting in the wings. A classic bit of 'airship gap' scaremongering, then. Dang. I wasn’t sure either, but I could think of no really bad puns with ‘Delta’, which swung it. Now I’ve looked it up [Mowthorpe 'Battlebags'] I’m sure it’s Delta. Eta’s first flight was August 1913.
By 1913 the _Morning Post_ Lebaudy (yet another example of pre-1914 public subscription airpower) had already been wrecked. On the other hand, the first Astra-Torres had been purchased and arrived in June 1913. Number 4, the Parseval airship, had been brought from Germany also in 1912 and ‘delivered in 1913′. More had been ordered, which Parsevals dutifully worked on until, come August 1914, they were finished and duly impressed into the German service. Meanwhile, Vickers were getting a license from Parseval, which they put into action.

So – although this kind of ’small cock’ photo might have made sense in 1911, by 1913, the UK was moving ahead on a number of fronts (A-T, Parsevals, and the home-grown airships), and there were a lot more waiting in the wings. A classic bit of ‘airship gap’ scaremongering, then.

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2009/01/15/phallic-symbol-envy/comment-page-1/#comment-95619 Brett Holman Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:27:08 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1174#comment-95619 I think it's Delta, actually, based on (i) the arrangement of the fins at the back (ii) the stated capacity of the envelope (Delta's was 175000 cubic feet, Eta was only 100000, Gamma about the same, Beta II 50,000) and (iii) Eta didn't come into service until July 1913; Nulli Secundus was scrapped in 1908. But that last point makes me realise that the artist has understated Britain's aerial might -- Gamma and Beta II were both still in service at that time (and both lasted into WWI), so why weren't they included? Presumably <em>because</em> the artist wanted to understate Britain's aerial might. Not that it was much anyway -- the total gasbag capacity would only have been about 325000 cubic feet. Some pictures of Delta here: http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive/airships01/1912.Delta.British.Army.airship.jpg I think it’s Delta, actually, based on (i) the arrangement of the fins at the back (ii) the stated capacity of the envelope (Delta’s was 175000 cubic feet, Eta was only 100000, Gamma about the same, Beta II 50,000) and (iii) Eta didn’t come into service until July 1913; Nulli Secundus was scrapped in 1908. But that last point makes me realise that the artist has understated Britain’s aerial might — Gamma and Beta II were both still in service at that time (and both lasted into WWI), so why weren’t they included? Presumably because the artist wanted to understate Britain’s aerial might. Not that it was much anyway — the total gasbag capacity would only have been about 325000 cubic feet.

Some pictures of Delta here: http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive/airships01/1912.Delta.British.Army.airship.jpg

]]> By: Jakob http://airminded.org/2009/01/15/phallic-symbol-envy/comment-page-1/#comment-95601 Jakob Mon, 19 Jan 2009 22:38:38 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1174#comment-95601 Chris: A fair point, and even geekier than mine - I salute you sir! Lester: I don't know about the underpowered I'm afraid - didn't Nulli use the engine that Cody wanted for his aeroplane? I should really know this, as my next project is looking at the origins of the RAE... Chris: A fair point, and even geekier than mine – I salute you sir!

Lester: I don’t know about the underpowered I’m afraid – didn’t Nulli use the engine that Cody wanted for his aeroplane? I should really know this, as my next project is looking at the origins of the RAE…

]]> By: david tiley http://airminded.org/2009/01/15/phallic-symbol-envy/comment-page-1/#comment-95597 david tiley Mon, 19 Jan 2009 21:08:08 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1174#comment-95597 One consequence of course is that we have never ever seen these behemoths of the air fight each other. Can you imagine a Trafalgar of the skies? I suppose I am imagining a world in which the aeroplane turned out not to be practical. If I don't go to work, the Mekon will torment me yet again.... One consequence of course is that we have never ever seen these behemoths of the air fight each other. Can you imagine a Trafalgar of the skies?

I suppose I am imagining a world in which the aeroplane turned out not to be practical.

If I don’t go to work, the Mekon will torment me yet again….

]]> By: Lester http://airminded.org/2009/01/15/phallic-symbol-envy/comment-page-1/#comment-95584 Lester Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:23:35 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1174#comment-95584 Sorry, Jacob -> Jakob. (Can't find the "Edit" on this thing) Sorry, Jacob -> Jakob. (Can’t find the “Edit” on this thing)

]]> By: Lester http://airminded.org/2009/01/15/phallic-symbol-envy/comment-page-1/#comment-95583 Lester Mon, 19 Jan 2009 13:21:53 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1174#comment-95583 Oh, it's just amusing :-) but given the embarrassment it causes me now, had I been there at the time it would have been very effective propaganda on me. Of course, with hindsight, our not having wasted huge amounts of resources on not-terribly-useful lighter-than-air craft was probably a good thing when it came to developing an effective air force just a few years later. Without that hindsight I might have been writing to my MP immediately! Jacob: Nulli Secundus - second to none at being overdue, over budget, under specified, under powered and, finally and catastrophically, under built. Nice to know nothing changes in good old Blighty! (Or am I confusing it with a later 'ship?) Oh, it’s just amusing :-) but given the embarrassment it causes me now, had I been there at the time it would have been very effective propaganda on me.

Of course, with hindsight, our not having wasted huge amounts of resources on not-terribly-useful lighter-than-air craft was probably a good thing when it came to developing an effective air force just a few years later.

Without that hindsight I might have been writing to my MP immediately!

Jacob: Nulli Secundus – second to none at being overdue, over budget, under specified, under powered and, finally and catastrophically, under built. Nice to know nothing changes in good old Blighty! (Or am I confusing it with a later ’ship?)

]]> By: Chris Williams http://airminded.org/2009/01/15/phallic-symbol-envy/comment-page-1/#comment-95557 Chris Williams Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:17:23 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1174#comment-95557 Looks like Eta to me. So at least it wasn't a patch on them. Looks like Eta to me. So at least it wasn’t a patch on them.

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