Comments on: Hang 'em high http://airminded.org/2009/01/12/hang-em-high/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=hang-em-high Airpower and British society, 1908-1941 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:04:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2009/01/12/hang-em-high/comment-page-1/#comment-95487 Brett Holman Sat, 17 Jan 2009 08:18:12 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1162#comment-95487 Well, that doesn't clarify things, but thanks! Well, that doesn't clarify things, but thanks!

]]> By: Chris Williams http://airminded.org/2009/01/12/hang-em-high/comment-page-1/#comment-95396 Chris Williams Thu, 15 Jan 2009 11:29:38 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1162#comment-95396 I'm getting a lot of 'hanged AND lamp-post' results from reports of the New York draft riots of 1863. It happened to the unfortunate Col O'Brien, late a resident of SHeffield, and a veteran of Garibaldi's campaigns and the Crimea, allegedly. During the Birmingham riots of1839, the phrase 'hanged to the nearest lamp-post' was used, but in what appears to have been a rhetorical sense. That seems to be the earliest reference I can find. I'm getting a lot of 'hanged AND lamp-post' results from reports of the New York draft riots of 1863. It happened to the unfortunate Col O'Brien, late a resident of SHeffield, and a veteran of Garibaldi's campaigns and the Crimea, allegedly. During the Birmingham riots of1839, the phrase 'hanged to the nearest lamp-post' was used, but in what appears to have been a rhetorical sense. That seems to be the earliest reference I can find.

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2009/01/12/hang-em-high/comment-page-1/#comment-95392 Brett Holman Thu, 15 Jan 2009 07:11:25 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1162#comment-95392 <blockquote>Can you get to the Nineteenth Century British Newspapers online from the antipodes?</blockquote> No, but then what relevance has 19th century British history for Australia?

Can you get to the Nineteenth Century British Newspapers online from the antipodes?

No, but then what relevance has 19th century British history for Australia?

]]> By: Chris Williams http://airminded.org/2009/01/12/hang-em-high/comment-page-1/#comment-95362 Chris Williams Tue, 13 Jan 2009 21:54:49 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1162#comment-95362 Interestingly, that Times article wasn't castigating the admirals for getting Der Tag wrong, but their civilian paymasters for skimping on the kit. So perhaps Ashmore was getting in a bit of a tizz: it would have been Weir swinging, not him. I tried 'lynch' and 'naval' but there are too many politicians called Lynch for that to work. It was 'admiral' and 'lamp post' wot won it. That was the earliest one that I could find. Can you get to the Nineteenth Century British Newspapers online from the antipodes? I wonder if this kind of speculation took off after (a) Bloody Sunday, (b) the Crimea or (c) Lord Roberts' National Service League? Interestingly, that Times article wasn't castigating the admirals for getting Der Tag wrong, but their civilian paymasters for skimping on the kit. So perhaps Ashmore was getting in a bit of a tizz: it would have been Weir swinging, not him.

I tried 'lynch' and 'naval' but there are too many politicians called Lynch for that to work. It was 'admiral' and 'lamp post' wot won it. That was the earliest one that I could find. Can you get to the Nineteenth Century British Newspapers online from the antipodes?

I wonder if this kind of speculation took off after (a) Bloody Sunday, (b) the Crimea or (c) Lord Roberts' National Service League?

]]> By: JDK http://airminded.org/2009/01/12/hang-em-high/comment-page-1/#comment-95351 JDK Tue, 13 Jan 2009 12:11:23 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1162#comment-95351 I'm failing to see what's wrong with the idea. I mean, on a purely Darwinian basis, the slower dumber ones would be culled for the good of humanity. It would add a certain frisson for seeking these posts that's unfortunately lacking in the recruitment process. Of course Churchill would've been topped about five times before W.W.II, so perhaps we might lose some arguably useful officials en-route. Something about encouraging the others? More seriously, at least one W.W.II leader came to his justified end strung up by the heels. I'm failing to see what's wrong with the idea. I mean, on a purely Darwinian basis, the slower dumber ones would be culled for the good of humanity.

It would add a certain frisson for seeking these posts that's unfortunately lacking in the recruitment process.

Of course Churchill would've been topped about five times before W.W.II, so perhaps we might lose some arguably useful officials en-route.

Something about encouraging the others?

More seriously, at least one W.W.II leader came to his justified end strung up by the heels.

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2009/01/12/hang-em-high/comment-page-1/#comment-95345 Brett Holman Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:54:41 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1162#comment-95345 Thanks for the suggestions -- though it seems like the answer might be "all of the above"! I did search in <em>The Times</em> but didn't didn't find the article Chris found. I think that would be the obvious way to track this backwards -- if there was a tradition of navalists talking about hanging Sea Lords from lamp-posts for failing the country, that could easily transfer over to the air force. Thanks for the suggestions -- though it seems like the answer might be "all of the above"!

I did search in The Times but didn't didn't find the article Chris found. I think that would be the obvious way to track this backwards -- if there was a tradition of navalists talking about hanging Sea Lords from lamp-posts for failing the country, that could easily transfer over to the air force.

]]> By: Zebee http://airminded.org/2009/01/12/hang-em-high/comment-page-1/#comment-95334 Zebee Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:26:58 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1162#comment-95334 I believe that at the beginning of the French Revolution, before the directorate got organised, that mobs hanged aristocrats from lamp posts. Or possibly one, the wikipedia entry for "a la lanterne" (the supposed cry raised before a lynching) says it's about one particular lamp post, with the source a 1907 encyclopedia. A search for "a la lanterne" gets http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB081EFA3C5E1A738DDDA00994DA405B8884F0D3 from 1888. There might be earlier, it's not in Tale of Two Cities by any chance? Zebee I believe that at the beginning of the French Revolution, before the directorate got organised, that mobs hanged aristocrats from lamp posts. Or possibly one, the wikipedia entry for "a la lanterne" (the supposed cry raised before a lynching) says it's about one particular lamp post, with the source a 1907 encyclopedia.

A search for "a la lanterne" gets http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB081EFA3C5E1A738DDDA00994DA405B8884F0D3 from 1888. There might be earlier, it's not in Tale of Two Cities by any chance?

Zebee

]]> By: Chris Williams http://airminded.org/2009/01/12/hang-em-high/comment-page-1/#comment-95331 Chris Williams Mon, 12 Jan 2009 21:40:16 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1162#comment-95331 The Times, Tuesday, Jul 26, 1887; pg. 3; Issue 32134; col E The Navy. P. H. COLOMB.; 'Boards of Admiralty . . . . have to make all sorts of unbusinesslike compromises for fear that they should be caught in office by a sudden war with a totally inadequate navy, and hanged forthwith, as they certainly would be, by the mob on the lamp-post in front of Whitehall.' Dangerous game, national defence. The Times, Tuesday, Jul 26, 1887; pg. 3; Issue 32134; col E
The Navy. P. H. COLOMB.;

'Boards of Admiralty . . . . have to make all sorts of unbusinesslike compromises for fear that they should be caught in office by a sudden war with a totally inadequate navy, and hanged forthwith, as they certainly would be, by the mob on the lamp-post in front of Whitehall.'

Dangerous game, national defence.

]]> By: Erik Lund http://airminded.org/2009/01/12/hang-em-high/comment-page-1/#comment-95330 Erik Lund Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:41:29 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1162#comment-95330 It was a telegraph meme! Only slightly more seriously, I'm seeing a link to lynching. I know we tend to see lynching through the lens of race terrorism (on account of that being what it was), but at the time it had its defenders. It is a key plot point in the famous "first" (James Fenimore Cooper, call your agent!) Western novel, _The Virginian_ (1911), that lynching is a necessary element of libertarian justice. A healthy society strings up its own criminals instead of waiting for the government to do it for them. It was a telegraph meme!

Only slightly more seriously, I'm seeing a link to lynching. I know we tend to see lynching through the lens of race terrorism (on account of that being what it was), but at the time it had its defenders. It is a key plot point in the famous "first" (James Fenimore Cooper, call your agent!) Western novel, _The Virginian_ (1911), that lynching is a necessary element of libertarian justice. A healthy society strings up its own criminals instead of waiting for the government to do it for them.

]]> By: Ben Brumfield http://airminded.org/2009/01/12/hang-em-high/comment-page-1/#comment-95322 Ben Brumfield Mon, 12 Jan 2009 13:01:02 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1162#comment-95322 Seemed to be going around at the time. <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=zruXZHUbdk0C&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=german+reservists+lampposts&source=web&ots=UyK3ABDygj&sig=NP47v8yqUjnJ_Adq-ZWKPimLUXQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result" rel="nofollow">See the US ambassador threaten the Germans with lynchings in 1917, for example</a>. Seemed to be going around at the time.

See the US ambassador threaten the Germans with lynchings in 1917, for example.

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