Comments on: The enemy within http://airminded.org/2009/01/08/the-enemy-within/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-enemy-within Airpower and British society, 1908-1941 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:09:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2009/01/08/the-enemy-within/comment-page-1/#comment-95343 Brett Holman Tue, 13 Jan 2009 05:24:54 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1140#comment-95343 I guess it's a winning tactic when paranoia both your method and your goal ... I guess it's a winning tactic when paranoia both your method and your goal ...

]]> By: stevis http://airminded.org/2009/01/08/the-enemy-within/comment-page-1/#comment-95213 stevis Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:23:47 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1140#comment-95213 "He brandished a letter before his peers, the contents of which would ’simply astonish you all’ if he were to read them out;" reminds me an awful lot of "I hold in my hand a list of card-carrying Communists in the State Department." The hacks in history repeat themselves too, I guess. "He brandished a letter before his peers, the contents of which would ’simply astonish you all’ if he were to read them out;" reminds me an awful lot of "I hold in my hand a list of card-carrying Communists in the State Department." The hacks in history repeat themselves too, I guess.

]]> By: Chris Williams http://airminded.org/2009/01/08/the-enemy-within/comment-page-1/#comment-95141 Chris Williams Thu, 08 Jan 2009 12:22:25 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1140#comment-95141 You see? The answers are to be found in Leicester. You see? The answers are to be found in Leicester.

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2009/01/08/the-enemy-within/comment-page-1/#comment-95138 Brett Holman Thu, 08 Jan 2009 11:22:54 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1140#comment-95138 Jonathan: There are a lot of things in this area which ought to be more widely known -- or maybe I'm just biased! :) Chris: I'd guess it's quite possibly all of the above -- there are clear continuities with the pre-war invasion/spy Germanophobia, but the air raids (including earlier Zeppelin raids) and other incidents just as obviously kicked up the fear a notch. I don't know about the French connection ... Panikos Panayi's <em>The Enemy in our Midst: Germans in Britain during the First World War</em> is probably a good place to look. Jonathan:

There are a lot of things in this area which ought to be more widely known -- or maybe I'm just biased! :)

Chris:

I'd guess it's quite possibly all of the above -- there are clear continuities with the pre-war invasion/spy Germanophobia, but the air raids (including earlier Zeppelin raids) and other incidents just as obviously kicked up the fear a notch. I don't know about the French connection ... Panikos Panayi's The Enemy in our Midst: Germans in Britain during the First World War is probably a good place to look.

]]> By: Chris Williams http://airminded.org/2009/01/08/the-enemy-within/comment-page-1/#comment-95131 Chris Williams Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:51:23 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1140#comment-95131 OTOH, David was only reporting in, which is reasonably softcore. Reminds me of signing on, in fact - I wonder if he had to queue? Top twentieth century genius Norbert Elias spent much of the war on the Isle of Man, along with several thousand other anti-Nazi refugees, many of whom were Jewish, and all of whom had anti-Nazi credentials from way back which were very easy to check up on. Of course, not everyone on the Isle of Man was so clean - but the sifting out could have been done a lot better and quicker. The fact that the argument about bombing policy was between a man named Lindemann and another named Zuckerman probably gives some indication of the importance of ex-Germans to the UK war effort Regarding the Hidden Hand, I've always wanted to read a good study which compared its timing to the Caillaux scandal in France. 'Enemy within' was obviously a very useful line to take south of La Manche: I wonder if it was this that kicked off the interest of Bottomley and Co? Or if it was the heightened xenophobia of the bombing raids? Of if the paranoia was there already, but the raids and the French affairs gave it purchase? OTOH, David was only reporting in, which is reasonably softcore. Reminds me of signing on, in fact - I wonder if he had to queue?

Top twentieth century genius Norbert Elias spent much of the war on the Isle of Man, along with several thousand other anti-Nazi refugees, many of whom were Jewish, and all of whom had anti-Nazi credentials from way back which were very easy to check up on. Of course, not everyone on the Isle of Man was so clean - but the sifting out could have been done a lot better and quicker. The fact that the argument about bombing policy was between a man named Lindemann and another named Zuckerman probably gives some indication of the importance of ex-Germans to the UK war effort

Regarding the Hidden Hand, I've always wanted to read a good study which compared its timing to the Caillaux scandal in France. 'Enemy within' was obviously a very useful line to take south of La Manche: I wonder if it was this that kicked off the interest of Bottomley and Co? Or if it was the heightened xenophobia of the bombing raids? Of if the paranoia was there already, but the raids and the French affairs gave it purchase?

]]> By: JDK http://airminded.org/2009/01/08/the-enemy-within/comment-page-1/#comment-95130 JDK Thu, 08 Jan 2009 07:51:15 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1140#comment-95130 Fred David was a German Jew and aircraft designer who emigrated to Australia from Germany via Japan in the 1930s. He was required to report in fortnightly as an 'unfriendly alien'. After December 8th, 1941, he led the crash design team for the amazing development of the CAC Boomerang fighter. One has to wonder what <i>other</i> talents were lost to democracy by the racist sweeps of internment? Not a bad idea to check up on the nationals of your enemy in your country, but it seems that little effort was made to sort the wheat from the chaff. http://www.aarg.com.au/boomerang.htm As to the Hidden Hand, a fine example of one Britain's low points, matched by the <i>Kristallnacht</i> efforts of the fine London mob. Wonder if they considered attacking the abode of the rather Germanic Saxe Coburg Gothas in the centre of London? Interesting that the SCGs decided how much better 'Windsor' sounded in July 1917. Fred David was a German Jew and aircraft designer who emigrated to Australia from Germany via Japan in the 1930s. He was required to report in fortnightly as an 'unfriendly alien'. After December 8th, 1941, he led the crash design team for the amazing development of the CAC Boomerang fighter.

One has to wonder what other talents were lost to democracy by the racist sweeps of internment? Not a bad idea to check up on the nationals of your enemy in your country, but it seems that little effort was made to sort the wheat from the chaff.

http://www.aarg.com.au/boomerang.htm

As to the Hidden Hand, a fine example of one Britain's low points, matched by the Kristallnacht efforts of the fine London mob. Wonder if they considered attacking the abode of the rather Germanic Saxe Coburg Gothas in the centre of London? Interesting that the SCGs decided how much better 'Windsor' sounded in July 1917.

]]> By: Erik Lund http://airminded.org/2009/01/08/the-enemy-within/comment-page-1/#comment-95114 Erik Lund Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:43:49 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1140#comment-95114 My grandfather, who helped found Canada's modern champagne socialist party (which isn't a very generous way of describing very generous intentions, but never mind), used to rant and rail about the disgraceful decision to intern our province's resident Japanese-Canadian population in 1942. But get him on the subject of his German next-door neighbour, and all that liberal generosity vanished. Although I gather that the fellow enjoyed winding Grampa up. My grandfather, who helped found Canada's modern champagne socialist party (which isn't a very generous way of describing very generous intentions, but never mind), used to rant and rail about the disgraceful decision to intern our province's resident Japanese-Canadian population in 1942.
But get him on the subject of his German next-door neighbour, and all that liberal generosity vanished.
Although I gather that the fellow enjoyed winding Grampa up.

]]> By: Jonathan Dresner http://airminded.org/2009/01/08/the-enemy-within/comment-page-1/#comment-95109 Jonathan Dresner Wed, 07 Jan 2009 16:05:03 +0000 http://airminded.org/?p=1140#comment-95109 This is interesting. Internment was also used in the US during WWI (I'm pretty sure: there was a really intense anti-German sentiment, at any rate) and, most famously, during WWII. It's also interesting, and a little disturbing, that the air raids on London never seem to come up in any of the histories I've read. Granted, I haven't read a lot on WWI, very general stuff, but I talk about the technologies of war in my surveys, and I can't believe I never noticed this before. This is interesting. Internment was also used in the US during WWI (I'm pretty sure: there was a really intense anti-German sentiment, at any rate) and, most famously, during WWII.

It's also interesting, and a little disturbing, that the air raids on London never seem to come up in any of the histories I've read. Granted, I haven't read a lot on WWI, very general stuff, but I talk about the technologies of war in my surveys, and I can't believe I never noticed this before.

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