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	<title>Comments on: Rome 2a</title>
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	<link>http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/</link>
	<description>Airpower and British society, 1908-1941</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Airminded &#183; Rome 2b</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73443</link>
		<dc:creator>Airminded &#183; Rome 2b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73443</guid>
		<description>[...] hours of daylight of my last day in Rome were upon me. So, sadly, I couldn&#8217;t linger in the forum &#8212; there was still so much to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] hours of daylight of my last day in Rome were upon me. So, sadly, I couldn&#8217;t linger in the forum &#8212; there was still so much to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73123</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:42:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73123</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Tony, I was wondering when you were going to point out some of the myriad errors in these posts :) Oops on Hadrian/Antoninus, particularly ... I DID know that, I swear ...

With Phocas, I wasn't implying that he was a foreign ruler, but rather that one little column (and that nicked from somebody else's memorial) is pretty sad compared with the various columns and arches dedicated to earlier rulers.

I wondered that about the sphinx lady too -- for one thing, it's not very weathered for something carved so finely and (presumably) exposed to the elements for a lot of centuries. Maybe whoever put there thought it's something like the Romans might have done?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Tony, I was wondering when you were going to point out some of the myriad errors in these posts :) Oops on Hadrian/Antoninus, particularly &#8230; I DID know that, I swear &#8230;</p>
<p>With Phocas, I wasn&#8217;t implying that he was a foreign ruler, but rather that one little column (and that nicked from somebody else&#8217;s memorial) is pretty sad compared with the various columns and arches dedicated to earlier rulers.</p>
<p>I wondered that about the sphinx lady too &#8212; for one thing, it&#8217;s not very weathered for something carved so finely and (presumably) exposed to the elements for a lot of centuries. Maybe whoever put there thought it&#8217;s something like the Romans might have done?</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Keen</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73120</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Keen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:04:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73120</guid>
		<description>Brett, I'm afraid I'm going to get a bit schoolmasterly on you ...

Arch of Septimius Severus: The side passages were approached by steps.  The central passage always had a road passing through it; it's the Via Sacra that was used for Roman triumphs.

Column of Phocas: It often gets overlooked that Rome was part of the Byzantine (or as they thought of it 'Roman') empire at the time of Phocas, so it's not quite like a foreign ruler making a donation.

Curia Julia: The Curia's not quite on the same place as the Republican Senate House, but it's probably adjacent to it.  The building was destroyed in a fire of AD 283, and rebuilt by Diocletian after coming to power in AD 284.  Maximian did not become emperor until AD 283.

The relief is the so-called Plutei of Trajan (though it may date to Hadrian's reign).  It was mounted in the Forum, opposite the Curia.though that wasn't the original position.

Temple of Antoninus and Faustina: Antoninus Pius succeeded Hadrian, and deified him, not the other way round.  The rededication of the temple of Faustina happened under Marcus Aurelius.

The next photo shows the Horrea Vespasiani, built as a fish-market.  The House of the Vestals is off to the right (it can just be seen in the photo, in front of the retaining walls of the Domus Tiberiana).

Arch of Constantine: Suggestions that the Arch began life as a monument of Hadrian or Domitian are generally not accepted now.  However, the Arch does using material almost all reused from other monuments, and most of the architectural (as opposed to decorative) elements come from another unidentified triumphal arch.  The decorative programme mostly (though not entirely) comes from imperial monuments of Trajan, Hadrian and Marcus Aurelius.  The Hadrianic panels (some of the roundels) may have come from a monument to Hadrian's lover Antinoos.

The female figure from the Palatine is clearly a sphinx, but I don't know anything more about her.  (She looks post-Renaissance rather than Roman to me, but I couldn't swear to that.)

Apollo Citaredo is Apollo the cithara player, if that was a problem.

And that is a fountain in the next photo.

The 'Hippodrome' is generally (and rightly, I'd say) accepted to be a sunken garden.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brett, I&#8217;m afraid I&#8217;m going to get a bit schoolmasterly on you &#8230;</p>
<p>Arch of Septimius Severus: The side passages were approached by steps.  The central passage always had a road passing through it; it&#8217;s the Via Sacra that was used for Roman triumphs.</p>
<p>Column of Phocas: It often gets overlooked that Rome was part of the Byzantine (or as they thought of it &#8216;Roman&#8217;) empire at the time of Phocas, so it&#8217;s not quite like a foreign ruler making a donation.</p>
<p>Curia Julia: The Curia&#8217;s not quite on the same place as the Republican Senate House, but it&#8217;s probably adjacent to it.  The building was destroyed in a fire of AD 283, and rebuilt by Diocletian after coming to power in AD 284.  Maximian did not become emperor until AD 283.</p>
<p>The relief is the so-called Plutei of Trajan (though it may date to Hadrian&#8217;s reign).  It was mounted in the Forum, opposite the Curia.though that wasn&#8217;t the original position.</p>
<p>Temple of Antoninus and Faustina: Antoninus Pius succeeded Hadrian, and deified him, not the other way round.  The rededication of the temple of Faustina happened under Marcus Aurelius.</p>
<p>The next photo shows the Horrea Vespasiani, built as a fish-market.  The House of the Vestals is off to the right (it can just be seen in the photo, in front of the retaining walls of the Domus Tiberiana).</p>
<p>Arch of Constantine: Suggestions that the Arch began life as a monument of Hadrian or Domitian are generally not accepted now.  However, the Arch does using material almost all reused from other monuments, and most of the architectural (as opposed to decorative) elements come from another unidentified triumphal arch.  The decorative programme mostly (though not entirely) comes from imperial monuments of Trajan, Hadrian and Marcus Aurelius.  The Hadrianic panels (some of the roundels) may have come from a monument to Hadrian&#8217;s lover Antinoos.</p>
<p>The female figure from the Palatine is clearly a sphinx, but I don&#8217;t know anything more about her.  (She looks post-Renaissance rather than Roman to me, but I couldn&#8217;t swear to that.)</p>
<p>Apollo Citaredo is Apollo the cithara player, if that was a problem.</p>
<p>And that is a fountain in the next photo.</p>
<p>The &#8216;Hippodrome&#8217; is generally (and rightly, I&#8217;d say) accepted to be a sunken garden.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73116</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73116</guid>
		<description>At least you tried! I got by on si, no, grazie, per favore and maybe uno ... pretty lame.

Vigna di Valle does look like a great museum, especially all the seaplanes and flying boats. The WWI Caproni bombers would be cool too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least you tried! I got by on si, no, grazie, per favore and maybe uno &#8230; pretty lame.</p>
<p>Vigna di Valle does look like a great museum, especially all the seaplanes and flying boats. The WWI Caproni bombers would be cool too.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Smith</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73095</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 01:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73095</guid>
		<description>Me too - like Simon I was in Rome in 95.  Had no idea at all of the Air Museum.  The Macchi Castoldi MC.72!  Wow!  They don't make 'em like that anymore.  

And I really enjoyed the very points made above about Rome, the way you can walk around a corner and encounter some extraordinary ancient thing.  I hope to return in 2010.

I have to smile remembering the difficulty we had with the Italian rolled R.  Try ordering a Merlot.  And my better half's hilarious encounter in a Trattoria trying to avoid meat (being a vegetarian).  We thought carne was pronounced "car-nay" but it isn't.  That's cane.  The whole place was in fits wondering why we were trying to avoid eating dog!  Carne is "carrrrh-nay".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me too - like Simon I was in Rome in 95.  Had no idea at all of the Air Museum.  The Macchi Castoldi MC.72!  Wow!  They don&#8217;t make &#8216;em like that anymore.  </p>
<p>And I really enjoyed the very points made above about Rome, the way you can walk around a corner and encounter some extraordinary ancient thing.  I hope to return in 2010.</p>
<p>I have to smile remembering the difficulty we had with the Italian rolled R.  Try ordering a Merlot.  And my better half&#8217;s hilarious encounter in a Trattoria trying to avoid meat (being a vegetarian).  We thought carne was pronounced &#8220;car-nay&#8221; but it isn&#8217;t.  That&#8217;s cane.  The whole place was in fits wondering why we were trying to avoid eating dog!  Carne is &#8220;carrrrh-nay&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ricardo Reis</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73058</link>
		<dc:creator>Ricardo Reis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 17:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73058</guid>
		<description>best page on it: http://www.targeta.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/vigna_di_valle.htm

next time don't miss it ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>best page on it: <a href="http://www.targeta.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/vigna_di_valle.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.targeta.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/vigna_di_valle.htm</a></p>
<p>next time don&#8217;t miss it ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73039</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:27:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73039</guid>
		<description>No, I didn't even know it existed! Maybe next time ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I didn&#8217;t even know it existed! Maybe next time &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ricardo Reis</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73036</link>
		<dc:creator>Ricardo Reis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 12:14:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73036</guid>
		<description>Please cut my suspense! Did you go to the Italian Air Museum or not (Vigna di Valle)? A must for any Schneider Trophy enthusiast...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please cut my suspense! Did you go to the Italian Air Museum or not (Vigna di Valle)? A must for any Schneider Trophy enthusiast&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73026</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Apr 2008 10:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-73026</guid>
		<description>Yes, I kind of liked the lack of signs and so on plastered all over the place, getting in the way of contemplation. Just bits of ruin lying around, to wander amongst. On the other hand, I did wish I'd bought a decent guidebook! Instead of relying on what I could remember of Roman history and the skimpy Lonely Planet Best of I did buy. 

To be honest, I didn't find the Colosseum or the Roman Forum itself to be quite as powerful as I'd expected -- perhaps precisely because I did expect it? The bits which interested me most were probably the ones I hadn't heard of before, such as Trajan's Market. And the Capitoline Museums, but that's pre-empting the next post ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I kind of liked the lack of signs and so on plastered all over the place, getting in the way of contemplation. Just bits of ruin lying around, to wander amongst. On the other hand, I did wish I&#8217;d bought a decent guidebook! Instead of relying on what I could remember of Roman history and the skimpy Lonely Planet Best of I did buy. </p>
<p>To be honest, I didn&#8217;t find the Colosseum or the Roman Forum itself to be quite as powerful as I&#8217;d expected &#8212; perhaps precisely because I did expect it? The bits which interested me most were probably the ones I hadn&#8217;t heard of before, such as Trajan&#8217;s Market. And the Capitoline Museums, but that&#8217;s pre-empting the next post &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Fielding</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-72939</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Fielding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2008/04/15/rome-2a/#comment-72939</guid>
		<description>Glad you enjoyed Rome Brett. I went there with my father in 1995 for an amazing visit. We stayed just up the Via Republica in a hotel troublingly aboe the 'Fortza Italia' offices....

What struck me about the Forum was how casually it was 'worn' by the modern city, with lots of weeds and cats and remarkably little in the way of showy information or guided tours etc. Quite refreshing from the 'heritagised' UK. I found the Colusseum really disquieting - I've been to a fair few battlefields etc. but found confronting the site of the games emotionally troubling in a unique way. Must be getting soft in my old age, or two thousand years of Christian propaganda is getting to me...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad you enjoyed Rome Brett. I went there with my father in 1995 for an amazing visit. We stayed just up the Via Republica in a hotel troublingly aboe the &#8216;Fortza Italia&#8217; offices&#8230;.</p>
<p>What struck me about the Forum was how casually it was &#8216;worn&#8217; by the modern city, with lots of weeds and cats and remarkably little in the way of showy information or guided tours etc. Quite refreshing from the &#8216;heritagised&#8217; UK. I found the Colusseum really disquieting - I&#8217;ve been to a fair few battlefields etc. but found confronting the site of the games emotionally troubling in a unique way. Must be getting soft in my old age, or two thousand years of Christian propaganda is getting to me&#8230;</p>
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