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	<title>Comments on: What&#039;s wrong with a little destruction?</title>
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	<description>Airpower and British society, 1908-1941</description>
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		<title>By: Airminded &#183; Come friendly bombs and fall on Stonehenge</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/03/06/whats-wrong-with-a-little-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-80955</link>
		<dc:creator>Airminded &#183; Come friendly bombs and fall on Stonehenge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2008/03/06/whats-wrong-with-a-little-destruction/#comment-80955</guid>
		<description>[...] few months ago I looked at some visions of how aerial warfare might improve the city by blowing away ugly developments. Here&#8217;s a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] few months ago I looked at some visions of how aerial warfare might improve the city by blowing away ugly developments. Here&#8217;s a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/03/06/whats-wrong-with-a-little-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-71308</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:37:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Alex:

I don&#039;t know much about Betjeman, but &#039;snob&#039; does seem to be adequate for a one-word description!

What historiography are you referring to? I haven&#039;t looked very hard yet, but the American stuff I&#039;ve seen is mostly about the nuclear era. You&#039;re right, dispersal is another effect of bombing on town planning, but it didn&#039;t fit in so well with my post&#039;s title :) I can&#039;t remember where I saw it -- I thought it was Edgerton or Wohl, but it&#039;s not -- but didn&#039;t Le Corbusier explicitly design a city that was resistant to air attack? Lots of open spaces, buildings which minimised their cross-sections from above, lots of big water features which could be used by firefighters when the water mains went out. That&#039;s going to bug me now ...

Nemo:

Ah, I&#039;ve never read &lt;em&gt;Morning of the Magicians&lt;/em&gt;, though I&#039;ve heard plenty of things about it -- mostly bad (the Nazi-occult stuff in there sounds like it was basically complete rubbish). But that Goebbels statement does sound plausible, I think. Certainly Hitler spent a lot of time planning how to rebuild Berlin -- he was probably half-glad to see the place in ruins.

That Baker book does sound interesting -- there&#039;s a few familiar names in the excerpt which don&#039;t normally get up in books by generalists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex:</p>
<p>I don't know much about Betjeman, but 'snob' does seem to be adequate for a one-word description!</p>
<p>What historiography are you referring to? I haven't looked very hard yet, but the American stuff I've seen is mostly about the nuclear era. You're right, dispersal is another effect of bombing on town planning, but it didn't fit in so well with my post's title :) I can't remember where I saw it -- I thought it was Edgerton or Wohl, but it's not -- but didn't Le Corbusier explicitly design a city that was resistant to air attack? Lots of open spaces, buildings which minimised their cross-sections from above, lots of big water features which could be used by firefighters when the water mains went out. That's going to bug me now ...</p>
<p>Nemo:</p>
<p>Ah, I've never read <em>Morning of the Magicians</em>, though I've heard plenty of things about it -- mostly bad (the Nazi-occult stuff in there sounds like it was basically complete rubbish). But that Goebbels statement does sound plausible, I think. Certainly Hitler spent a lot of time planning how to rebuild Berlin -- he was probably half-glad to see the place in ruins.</p>
<p>That Baker book does sound interesting -- there's a few familiar names in the excerpt which don't normally get up in books by generalists.</p>
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		<title>By: Vidi &#171; Archaeoastronomy</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/03/06/whats-wrong-with-a-little-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-71241</link>
		<dc:creator>Vidi &#171; Archaeoastronomy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Airminded · What’s wrong with a little destruction? Is there something to be said for including bombing in urban planning? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Airminded · What’s wrong with a little destruction? Is there something to be said for including bombing in urban planning? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nemo</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/03/06/whats-wrong-with-a-little-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-71194</link>
		<dc:creator>Nemo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:18:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2008/03/06/whats-wrong-with-a-little-destruction/#comment-71194</guid>
		<description>This post reminded me of a quote attributed to Goebbles late in the war: &quot;Under the ruins of our demolished cities the accomplishments of the stupid nineteenth century lie buried.&quot; This is quoted in Part 2, Chapter 6 of THE MORNING OF THE MAGICIANS (a/k/a THE DAWN OF MAGIC in the UK) by Jacques Bergier and Louis Pauwels. Now this isn&#039;t exactly a scholarly book, but it was a hell of a lot of fun to read when I was 16 or 17. The book is unsourced and if the quote is accurate it reflects something written by G is German and subsequently translated into French and then English. Also, it&#039;s not clear if G is talking just about 19th Century architecture or something much broader.

Since I&#039;m here I&#039;ll also mention that the American novelist Nicholson Baker has written a history of the early years of WW2 that might be somewhat up your alley. If you don&#039;t know who Baker is ( let&#039;s just say here that he is an unusual writer) there is a story about him and his new book here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/books/04bake.html?_r=1&amp;ref=books&amp;oref=slogin

and there is an excerpt from the book itself here:

http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?tab=1&amp;pid=616619&amp;agid=2</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This post reminded me of a quote attributed to Goebbles late in the war: "Under the ruins of our demolished cities the accomplishments of the stupid nineteenth century lie buried." This is quoted in Part 2, Chapter 6 of THE MORNING OF THE MAGICIANS (a/k/a THE DAWN OF MAGIC in the UK) by Jacques Bergier and Louis Pauwels. Now this isn't exactly a scholarly book, but it was a hell of a lot of fun to read when I was 16 or 17. The book is unsourced and if the quote is accurate it reflects something written by G is German and subsequently translated into French and then English. Also, it's not clear if G is talking just about 19th Century architecture or something much broader.</p>
<p>Since I'm here I'll also mention that the American novelist Nicholson Baker has written a history of the early years of WW2 that might be somewhat up your alley. If you don't know who Baker is ( let's just say here that he is an unusual writer) there is a story about him and his new book here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/books/04bake.html?_r=1&#038;ref=books&#038;oref=slogin" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/04/books/04bake.html?_r=1&#038;ref=books&#038;oref=slogin</a></p>
<p>and there is an excerpt from the book itself here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?tab=1&#038;pid=616619&#038;agid=2" rel="nofollow">http://www.simonsays.com/content/book.cfm?tab=1&#038;pid=616619&#038;agid=2</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/03/06/whats-wrong-with-a-little-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-71173</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2008/03/06/whats-wrong-with-a-little-destruction/#comment-71173</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.chrisgreen.co.uk/202/poem-of-the-day/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Whoops&lt;/a&gt;; misquoted.

&lt;em&gt;Gaily into Ruislip Gardens
Runs the red electric train,
With a thousand Ta’s and Pardon’s
Daintily alights Elaine;&lt;/em&gt;

Reading the rest, I think my point is only reinforced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.chrisgreen.co.uk/202/poem-of-the-day/" rel="nofollow">Whoops</a>; misquoted.</p>
<p><em>Gaily into Ruislip Gardens<br />
Runs the red electric train,<br />
With a thousand Ta’s and Pardon’s<br />
Daintily alights Elaine;</em></p>
<p>Reading the rest, I think my point is only reinforced.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2008/03/06/whats-wrong-with-a-little-destruction/comment-page-1/#comment-71170</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 11:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2008/03/06/whats-wrong-with-a-little-destruction/#comment-71170</guid>
		<description>Or alternatively, rather than building underground, move these things out to the suburbs. Dispersal. It fit quite well with many interpretations of Le Corbusier&#039;s cite radieuse; all those white buildings in parks linked by superbly-landscaped highways. There&#039;s some interesting historiography mostly by American leftie/cultural studies types (so bring a sack of caveats) about the influence of air dread on suburban development.

Coming from a family with a new town background, I have to say that rereading &lt;em&gt;Slough&lt;/em&gt; after a few years leaves me a bit cold. Slough is a dump, sure enough, and Betjeman does a job of snarking it, but I bet it beat the piss out of 1930s Woolwich or Brixton, and there&#039;s a metric shitload of snobbery in there. To say nothing of the &quot;everything was better on the land, and maybe having London coventrated would get us back there - it&#039;s only a few million dead poor people&quot; meme.

Curiously, Betjeman managed to combine this kind of hymn of hate for modernism with reams of stuff about how wonderful the Underground, especially the Metropolitan Line, and the north-west London suburbs (built at the same time) were; out by RAF Northolt and Bentley Priory, mark. The key is of course class: &lt;em&gt;Into neat West Ruislip station/Pulls the bright electric train/With a thousand Ta&#039;s and Pardons/Daintily alights Elaine&lt;/em&gt;...She obviously wouldn&#039;t ever paint her nails, and therefore she gets a slot in the air raid shelter. But she does sound fucking incredibly dull.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or alternatively, rather than building underground, move these things out to the suburbs. Dispersal. It fit quite well with many interpretations of Le Corbusier's cite radieuse; all those white buildings in parks linked by superbly-landscaped highways. There's some interesting historiography mostly by American leftie/cultural studies types (so bring a sack of caveats) about the influence of air dread on suburban development.</p>
<p>Coming from a family with a new town background, I have to say that rereading <em>Slough</em> after a few years leaves me a bit cold. Slough is a dump, sure enough, and Betjeman does a job of snarking it, but I bet it beat the piss out of 1930s Woolwich or Brixton, and there's a metric shitload of snobbery in there. To say nothing of the "everything was better on the land, and maybe having London coventrated would get us back there - it's only a few million dead poor people" meme.</p>
<p>Curiously, Betjeman managed to combine this kind of hymn of hate for modernism with reams of stuff about how wonderful the Underground, especially the Metropolitan Line, and the north-west London suburbs (built at the same time) were; out by RAF Northolt and Bentley Priory, mark. The key is of course class: <em>Into neat West Ruislip station/Pulls the bright electric train/With a thousand Ta's and Pardons/Daintily alights Elaine</em>...She obviously wouldn't ever paint her nails, and therefore she gets a slot in the air raid shelter. But she does sound fucking incredibly dull.</p>
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