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	<title>Comments on: Incompletely sceptical</title>
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	<link>http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/</link>
	<description>Airpower and British society, 1908-1941</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51860</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 14:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51860</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;the morality of his former job bothers him not a jot - nor does it concern the judges of Heaven either&lt;/em&gt;

That'll be because at one point in the film you see the gates of Heaven where huge crowds of the war dead of every nation and branch of service are streaming in.

The flick was photographed by Jack Cardiff, scripted by Emeric Pressburger, directed by Michael Powell, and produced by Alexander Korda...and heaven looks suspiciously like the Royal Festival Hall crossed with St Clement Danes..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>the morality of his former job bothers him not a jot - nor does it concern the judges of Heaven either</em></p>
<p>That&#8217;ll be because at one point in the film you see the gates of Heaven where huge crowds of the war dead of every nation and branch of service are streaming in.</p>
<p>The flick was photographed by Jack Cardiff, scripted by Emeric Pressburger, directed by Michael Powell, and produced by Alexander Korda&#8230;and heaven looks suspiciously like the Royal Festival Hall crossed with St Clement Danes..</p>
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		<title>By: Jakob</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51848</link>
		<dc:creator>Jakob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 10:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51848</guid>
		<description>The stage adaptation is... weird. And fantastic. It's a weird mix of tone and performance type (what's the analogue of 'mixed media' for the stage? - theatre, circus-like stunts, music, dancing) that doesn't always gel, but is very moving.

I haven't seen the film, but the the morality of bombing is discussed in the play's climactic part. I've also been told by a friend that works at the National that there were two endings used during previews; the ending chosen depended on the audience's reaction to the arguments at the trial. They apparently killed off the lead a couple of times, but they may have stopped this for the main run.

Now all I need to do is rent a copy of the original.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The stage adaptation is&#8230; weird. And fantastic. It&#8217;s a weird mix of tone and performance type (what&#8217;s the analogue of &#8216;mixed media&#8217; for the stage? - theatre, circus-like stunts, music, dancing) that doesn&#8217;t always gel, but is very moving.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t seen the film, but the the morality of bombing is discussed in the play&#8217;s climactic part. I&#8217;ve also been told by a friend that works at the National that there were two endings used during previews; the ending chosen depended on the audience&#8217;s reaction to the arguments at the trial. They apparently killed off the lead a couple of times, but they may have stopped this for the main run.</p>
<p>Now all I need to do is rent a copy of the original.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Todman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51622</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Todman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jun 2007 05:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51622</guid>
		<description>I'm off to see the stage adaptation of AMOLAD on Thursday. Will be very interesting to see what they've done with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m off to see the stage adaptation of AMOLAD on Thursday. Will be very interesting to see what they&#8217;ve done with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Allport</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51405</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Allport</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51405</guid>
		<description>Presumably the reference you mean is from the famous opening narrative: &lt;i&gt;â€œSomeone must have been messing about with the uranium atom. It was not our solar system, Iâ€™m glad to say.â€&lt;/i&gt; There's not much else made of the connection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Presumably the reference you mean is from the famous opening narrative: <i>â€œSomeone must have been messing about with the uranium atom. It was not our solar system, Iâ€™m glad to say.â€</i> There&#8217;s not much else made of the connection.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51346</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 07:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51346</guid>
		<description>That's an interesting datum! Judging from IMDb, there's some sort of reference in the film to a nuclear war or at least to Hiroshima -- is there no connection made between that and his being a bomber pilot?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an interesting datum! Judging from IMDb, there&#8217;s some sort of reference in the film to a nuclear war or at least to Hiroshima &#8212; is there no connection made between that and his being a bomber pilot?</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Allport</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51283</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Allport</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 11:48:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51283</guid>
		<description>There's also &lt;a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038733/" rel="nofollow"&gt;A Matter of Life and Death&lt;/a&gt; (1946), in which David Niven's character is a veteran Master Bomber whose plane crashes after what must be one of the last 1,000-bomber raids on Berlin at the very end of the war (I wonder in fact if Peter Carter is supposed to be the &lt;i&gt;very last&lt;/i&gt; pilot killed in the war - British pilot, anyway - which makes his accidental escape all the more poignant). Carter is troubled by all sorts of existential concerns during the film, but the morality of his former job bothers him not a jot - nor does it concern the judges of Heaven either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s also <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038733/" rel="nofollow">A Matter of Life and Death</a> (1946), in which David Niven&#8217;s character is a veteran Master Bomber whose plane crashes after what must be one of the last 1,000-bomber raids on Berlin at the very end of the war (I wonder in fact if Peter Carter is supposed to be the <i>very last</i> pilot killed in the war - British pilot, anyway - which makes his accidental escape all the more poignant). Carter is troubled by all sorts of existential concerns during the film, but the morality of his former job bothers him not a jot - nor does it concern the judges of Heaven either.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51233</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51233</guid>
		<description>Well, &lt;em&gt;Battle of Britain&lt;/em&gt; did show the Luftwaffe bombing London first (admittedly by accident). And it also does show some proper Blitzing -- a working class area gets bombed, they dig survivors out of the rubble, there are families down in the Tube, etc. (It's got a bit of everything, it has.) But you're right, it does show the RAF bombing Berlin.

Was it  &lt;a href="http://airminded.org/2007/01/10/oh-come-on/#comments" rel="nofollow"&gt;this thread&lt;/a&gt; that you were thinking of, Gavin? In it I mention &lt;a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045513/" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Appointment in London&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt; (1952), starring Dirk Bogarde, which I've still yet to see. It sounds like it's a fairly accurate portrayal of Bomber Command missions. Though even there the target for the climactic raid is not a city but a secret weapons complex -- but it's not precision bombing either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, <em>Battle of Britain</em> did show the Luftwaffe bombing London first (admittedly by accident). And it also does show some proper Blitzing &#8212; a working class area gets bombed, they dig survivors out of the rubble, there are families down in the Tube, etc. (It&#8217;s got a bit of everything, it has.) But you&#8217;re right, it does show the RAF bombing Berlin.</p>
<p>Was it  <a href="http://airminded.org/2007/01/10/oh-come-on/#comments" rel="nofollow">this thread</a> that you were thinking of, Gavin? In it I mention <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045513/" rel="nofollow"><em>Appointment in London</em></a> (1952), starring Dirk Bogarde, which I&#8217;ve still yet to see. It sounds like it&#8217;s a fairly accurate portrayal of Bomber Command missions. Though even there the target for the climactic raid is not a city but a secret weapons complex &#8212; but it&#8217;s not precision bombing either.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Robinson</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51230</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51230</guid>
		<description>Yes, good point. I can't remember which post the comments were on, and it might have been more than one as it seems to come up a lot here, but we tended to class &lt;i&gt;Dam Busters&lt;/i&gt; as precision bombing against military/industrial targets rather than Harris-style area bombing. But as you say it's hard to ignore the inevitable impact on civilians.

And the bombing in &lt;i&gt;Battle of Britain&lt;/i&gt; isn't Harris-style area bombing either. But it's interesting that in BoB the Luftwaffe are shown mostly bombing military targets in Britain, and it's the RAF who bomb a city first, provoking the reprisals on London. We don't actually get to see the British bombers or the impact of the bombs so we don't know what they're bombing - it could be military/industrial targets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, good point. I can&#8217;t remember which post the comments were on, and it might have been more than one as it seems to come up a lot here, but we tended to class <i>Dam Busters</i> as precision bombing against military/industrial targets rather than Harris-style area bombing. But as you say it&#8217;s hard to ignore the inevitable impact on civilians.</p>
<p>And the bombing in <i>Battle of Britain</i> isn&#8217;t Harris-style area bombing either. But it&#8217;s interesting that in BoB the Luftwaffe are shown mostly bombing military targets in Britain, and it&#8217;s the RAF who bomb a city first, provoking the reprisals on London. We don&#8217;t actually get to see the British bombers or the impact of the bombs so we don&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re bombing - it could be military/industrial targets.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51229</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51229</guid>
		<description>Errr...&lt;em&gt;The Dam Busters&lt;/em&gt;? It's a dam, but the water's got to go somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Errr&#8230;<em>The Dam Busters</em>? It&#8217;s a dam, but the water&#8217;s got to go somewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Robinson</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51210</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 11:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/06/08/incompletely-sceptical/#comment-51210</guid>
		<description>This has reminded me of something: in all the discussions about cultural memories of the bomber offensive we couldn't think of any British war films that showed the RAF bombing German cities. Now I realise there is one, and ironically it's &lt;i&gt;The Battle of Britain&lt;/i&gt;. The bombing of Berlin is quite an important plot point because it enrages Hitler so much that he makes the Luftwaffe concentrate on London, leading to the climactic battle on 15th September (which goes so badly for the Germans that they've completely given up by 16th September, but anyway no-one said it had to be a realistic film...).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has reminded me of something: in all the discussions about cultural memories of the bomber offensive we couldn&#8217;t think of any British war films that showed the RAF bombing German cities. Now I realise there is one, and ironically it&#8217;s <i>The Battle of Britain</i>. The bombing of Berlin is quite an important plot point because it enrages Hitler so much that he makes the Luftwaffe concentrate on London, leading to the climactic battle on 15th September (which goes so badly for the Germans that they&#8217;ve completely given up by 16th September, but anyway no-one said it had to be a realistic film&#8230;).</p>
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