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	<title>Comments on: The next next war</title>
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	<link>http://airminded.org/2007/02/27/the-next-next-war/</link>
	<description>Airpower and British society, 1908-1941</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 09:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/02/27/the-next-next-war/#comment-39668</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/02/27/the-next-next-war/#comment-39668</guid>
		<description>Oh neat, thanks! I found the original post &lt;a href="http://hnn.us/blogs/comments/11493.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. The comments thread is also interesting -- had I been reading Cliopatria back then (just before I started I think), I could have confirmed that Meanjin is indeed an Australian journal, published by my own university in fact; and also that spring in the southern hemisphere starts in September, so the poem "Atomic Bomb" published in the Spring 1945 issue was almost certainly written after Hiroshima :) 

If you are still interested in pre-Hiroshima references to atomic bombs, Alan, the novels I know of are listed in a &lt;a href="http://airminded.org/2006/09/18/judgement-day-1936/" rel="nofollow"&gt;previous post&lt;/a&gt;. In the Times digital archive I found just two references prior to the Lords debate. One was from a September 1939 letter to the editor and was in relation to Hitler's threat of an unspecified secret weapon; another was from the early 1930s and was the name of a racehorse which was scratched!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh neat, thanks! I found the original post <a href="http://hnn.us/blogs/comments/11493.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. The comments thread is also interesting &#8212; had I been reading Cliopatria back then (just before I started I think), I could have confirmed that Meanjin is indeed an Australian journal, published by my own university in fact; and also that spring in the southern hemisphere starts in September, so the poem &#8220;Atomic Bomb&#8221; published in the Spring 1945 issue was almost certainly written after Hiroshima :) </p>
<p>If you are still interested in pre-Hiroshima references to atomic bombs, Alan, the novels I know of are listed in a <a href="http://airminded.org/2006/09/18/judgement-day-1936/" rel="nofollow">previous post</a>. In the Times digital archive I found just two references prior to the Lords debate. One was from a September 1939 letter to the editor and was in relation to Hitler&#8217;s threat of an unspecified secret weapon; another was from the early 1930s and was the name of a racehorse which was scratched!</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Allport</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/02/27/the-next-next-war/#comment-39665</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Allport</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 13:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/02/27/the-next-next-war/#comment-39665</guid>
		<description>I just remembered that I posted something about this at Cliopatria ages ago. Here is the excerpt from the article in the Daily Herald, May 31, 1945:

&lt;i&gt;HRS Phillpott: Globe-Busting Bomb â€“ It Was Coming.

"The â€˜Atomic Bombâ€™. You have never heard it, and you never will, because, according to Lord Darnley, if it ever drops it will destroy not only humanity but the globe itself. 

"Lord Darnley was speaking in the House of Lords last night, and declared that this â€˜Atomic Bombâ€™ was â€˜three-quarters in preparationâ€™ at the end of the [European] war.

"â€œIf what we are told about the atom is trueâ€, he said, â€œevery atom in the world might be disintegrated and the world would disappear."&lt;/i&gt;

(This would be Esme Ivo Bligh, ninth earl, and the son incidentally of Ivo Francis Walter Bligh, former president of the MCC and Kent County Cricket Club and the first English captain of an Ashes match with Australia.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just remembered that I posted something about this at Cliopatria ages ago. Here is the excerpt from the article in the Daily Herald, May 31, 1945:</p>
<p><i>HRS Phillpott: Globe-Busting Bomb â€“ It Was Coming.</p>
<p>&#8220;The â€˜Atomic Bombâ€™. You have never heard it, and you never will, because, according to Lord Darnley, if it ever drops it will destroy not only humanity but the globe itself. </p>
<p>&#8220;Lord Darnley was speaking in the House of Lords last night, and declared that this â€˜Atomic Bombâ€™ was â€˜three-quarters in preparationâ€™ at the end of the [European] war.</p>
<p>&#8220;â€œIf what we are told about the atom is trueâ€, he said, â€œevery atom in the world might be disintegrated and the world would disappear.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>(This would be Esme Ivo Bligh, ninth earl, and the son incidentally of Ivo Francis Walter Bligh, former president of the MCC and Kent County Cricket Club and the first English captain of an Ashes match with Australia.)</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/02/27/the-next-next-war/#comment-39652</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Feb 2007 09:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/02/27/the-next-next-war/#comment-39652</guid>
		<description>I agree that those talking about atomic bombs were most unlikely to have known of the Manhattan Project. But it's interesting to note that those who DIDN'T mention atomic bombs DID know of Manhattan, or at least the existence of an Allied bomb project -- Brabazon from his time at MAP, where (I think) Tube Alloys started; and Lord Cherwell AKA Frederick Lindemann, who was of course Churchill's most trusted scientific advisor (I didn't mention him in the post; he replied on behalf of the government on both occasions). See &lt;a href="http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/450806c.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;, for example.

Based on the phrasing used in the above quotes, it seems to me more likely that they are drawing more on some knowledge of the German bomb project, than pre-war discussions: atomic bombs are referred to quite casually, as though the listener ought to be aware of them (and while there were a few -- not many -- atomic bombs in pre-war SF, how many peers of the realm would have read about them, or remembered what they were in 1945?); and the statement is also made that they were something which were very nearly developed in the war, which is not something you could just assume from pre-war discussions. Given the context of the discussions about how to control German science and prevent revenge missile attacks, it all very strongly implies that some stories about a German bomb were floating about. But still, without seeing those stories I can't be sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that those talking about atomic bombs were most unlikely to have known of the Manhattan Project. But it&#8217;s interesting to note that those who DIDN&#8217;T mention atomic bombs DID know of Manhattan, or at least the existence of an Allied bomb project &#8212; Brabazon from his time at MAP, where (I think) Tube Alloys started; and Lord Cherwell AKA Frederick Lindemann, who was of course Churchill&#8217;s most trusted scientific advisor (I didn&#8217;t mention him in the post; he replied on behalf of the government on both occasions). See <a href="http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/1945/450806c.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>, for example.</p>
<p>Based on the phrasing used in the above quotes, it seems to me more likely that they are drawing more on some knowledge of the German bomb project, than pre-war discussions: atomic bombs are referred to quite casually, as though the listener ought to be aware of them (and while there were a few &#8212; not many &#8212; atomic bombs in pre-war SF, how many peers of the realm would have read about them, or remembered what they were in 1945?); and the statement is also made that they were something which were very nearly developed in the war, which is not something you could just assume from pre-war discussions. Given the context of the discussions about how to control German science and prevent revenge missile attacks, it all very strongly implies that some stories about a German bomb were floating about. But still, without seeing those stories I can&#8217;t be sure.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Allport</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/02/27/the-next-next-war/#comment-39536</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Allport</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 20:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/02/27/the-next-next-war/#comment-39536</guid>
		<description>I have seen newspaper reports of the same debate that mention, in a casual way, the possibility of an atom bomb. I have to assume that the speakers were in a state of complete ignorance regarding the Manhattan Project and were basing their comments on some of the speculative discussions about atomic warfare from the prewar period, plus perhaps rumors about a German program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have seen newspaper reports of the same debate that mention, in a casual way, the possibility of an atom bomb. I have to assume that the speakers were in a state of complete ignorance regarding the Manhattan Project and were basing their comments on some of the speculative discussions about atomic warfare from the prewar period, plus perhaps rumors about a German program.</p>
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