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	<title>Comments on: Advice to young (well, mid-PhD) writers</title>
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	<link>http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/</link>
	<description>Airpower and British society, 1908-1941</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Alan Allport</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35705</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Allport</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35705</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Whether thatâ€™s actually useful to know (as opposed to just being interesting), I donâ€™t know!&lt;/i&gt;

The 'confessional appendix' has become quite fashionable in studies of imperialism. Both David Cannadine and Niall Ferguson's books on empire include first-person essays in which they recount their family relationship to the subject. To be honest, charming though they can be, I'm not sure that they really add anything much to the analysis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Whether thatâ€™s actually useful to know (as opposed to just being interesting), I donâ€™t know!</i></p>
<p>The &#8216;confessional appendix&#8217; has become quite fashionable in studies of imperialism. Both David Cannadine and Niall Ferguson&#8217;s books on empire include first-person essays in which they recount their family relationship to the subject. To be honest, charming though they can be, I&#8217;m not sure that they really add anything much to the analysis.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35680</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jan 2007 08:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35680</guid>
		<description>This has been a really great comment thread, thanks all! I think the take-home message is: use personal pronouncs sparingly, if at all, but in any case very deliberately, not casually. So I'll go with my original instinct and revert to the disembodied voice. Interestingly, the votes run the other way (10 to 4 in favour of 'I'), though I admit the survey questions are not the most rigourously designed! 

Jack:

Getting a paper out now is like money in the bank, I reckon. You can always catch up on the thesis-writing later! 

I don't think I'd be much use in a course on performance and history, but I used to hang around with student theatre types, so I guess I picked up a few things here and there ...

Jonathan:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I donâ€™t have a problem with the pronoun per se, but thatâ€™s a weak introduction, which Iâ€™m sure youâ€™ll fix along the way.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, that would fit with the rest of the writing I did last week, it was all pretty dire! Hopefully this week's will be better.

Chris L:

Orwell was right -- eschew obfuscation! But didn't he himself use the first-person all the time in his essays? Of course, he wasn't writing for academics.

Gavin:

I know what you mean -- blogging is very cathartic in that way, you have license to be egotistical (though sometimes I get embarrassed by the number of times I say 'I' in a post!) It's almost mandatory to write in the first person, not just permissible, in fact.

Being empirically-inclined myself, I have little problem with the idea that evidence+methods overrides motive (and while its the motives of Holocaust deniers which make them despicable, it's their abuse of evidence which makes them plain wrong). But I think the mea culpa has its place. I've mentioned to Dan at Trench Fever before that I thought Mark Connelly's explanation (in &lt;em&gt;We Can Take It!&lt;/em&gt;) of his own relationship, since childhood, to the pleasure culture of WWII. It made me think about my own reasons for studying what I do. Whether that's actually useful to know (as opposed to just being interesting), I don't know!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has been a really great comment thread, thanks all! I think the take-home message is: use personal pronouncs sparingly, if at all, but in any case very deliberately, not casually. So I&#8217;ll go with my original instinct and revert to the disembodied voice. Interestingly, the votes run the other way (10 to 4 in favour of &#8216;I&#8217;), though I admit the survey questions are not the most rigourously designed! </p>
<p>Jack:</p>
<p>Getting a paper out now is like money in the bank, I reckon. You can always catch up on the thesis-writing later! </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;d be much use in a course on performance and history, but I used to hang around with student theatre types, so I guess I picked up a few things here and there &#8230;</p>
<p>Jonathan:</p>
<blockquote><p>I donâ€™t have a problem with the pronoun per se, but thatâ€™s a weak introduction, which Iâ€™m sure youâ€™ll fix along the way.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, that would fit with the rest of the writing I did last week, it was all pretty dire! Hopefully this week&#8217;s will be better.</p>
<p>Chris L:</p>
<p>Orwell was right &#8212; eschew obfuscation! But didn&#8217;t he himself use the first-person all the time in his essays? Of course, he wasn&#8217;t writing for academics.</p>
<p>Gavin:</p>
<p>I know what you mean &#8212; blogging is very cathartic in that way, you have license to be egotistical (though sometimes I get embarrassed by the number of times I say &#8216;I&#8217; in a post!) It&#8217;s almost mandatory to write in the first person, not just permissible, in fact.</p>
<p>Being empirically-inclined myself, I have little problem with the idea that evidence+methods overrides motive (and while its the motives of Holocaust deniers which make them despicable, it&#8217;s their abuse of evidence which makes them plain wrong). But I think the mea culpa has its place. I&#8217;ve mentioned to Dan at Trench Fever before that I thought Mark Connelly&#8217;s explanation (in <em>We Can Take It!</em>) of his own relationship, since childhood, to the pleasure culture of WWII. It made me think about my own reasons for studying what I do. Whether that&#8217;s actually useful to know (as opposed to just being interesting), I don&#8217;t know!</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Todman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35638</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Todman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 22:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35638</guid>
		<description>Yup, that's the sort of 'we' I mean. I agree it can read as patronisingly presumptive, but I have definitely tried to use it to try to avoid patronising readers in the other direction - "'you' look at this and think it's wrong, whereas 'I' know what's right" is a register that _really_ annoys me in 'popular' history, and I prefer to acknowledge that I'm bound up in what I study.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup, that&#8217;s the sort of &#8216;we&#8217; I mean. I agree it can read as patronisingly presumptive, but I have definitely tried to use it to try to avoid patronising readers in the other direction - &#8220;&#8216;you&#8217; look at this and think it&#8217;s wrong, whereas &#8216;I&#8217; know what&#8217;s right&#8221; is a register that _really_ annoys me in &#8216;popular&#8217; history, and I prefer to acknowledge that I&#8217;m bound up in what I study.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Robinson</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35589</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35589</guid>
		<description>I often find "we" very patronising, especially when it's used by newsreaders. "We are sending more text messages than ever..." "Oh, are you really? Are BBC newsreaders sending more text messages than ever? Why should i be interested in that?". (It also doesn't help that I'm a militant individualist who tries hard to reject all collective identities.)

Having said that, I'm just reading Myth and Memory (I'm poor: I had to wait for the paperback!) and I think the use of "we" works really well in that context because it's all about ideas that are pretty much universal in British culture.

I don't remember using "we" at all in my thesis (I'm considering some stylistic analysis to make sure, as it might also make an interesting blog post), but where I use it on my blog it's usually to refer to things that I consider to be universal, but mostly in negative terms: things that nobody knows; things we think we know that might turn out to be wrong; things that might be beyond human understanding.

(Jack: my former supervisor says not to worry as journals often do take an age. Also the journal in question has changed publishers so might be undergoing traumatic upheavals.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I often find &#8220;we&#8221; very patronising, especially when it&#8217;s used by newsreaders. &#8220;We are sending more text messages than ever&#8230;&#8221; &#8220;Oh, are you really? Are BBC newsreaders sending more text messages than ever? Why should i be interested in that?&#8221;. (It also doesn&#8217;t help that I&#8217;m a militant individualist who tries hard to reject all collective identities.)</p>
<p>Having said that, I&#8217;m just reading Myth and Memory (I&#8217;m poor: I had to wait for the paperback!) and I think the use of &#8220;we&#8221; works really well in that context because it&#8217;s all about ideas that are pretty much universal in British culture.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t remember using &#8220;we&#8221; at all in my thesis (I&#8217;m considering some stylistic analysis to make sure, as it might also make an interesting blog post), but where I use it on my blog it&#8217;s usually to refer to things that I consider to be universal, but mostly in negative terms: things that nobody knows; things we think we know that might turn out to be wrong; things that might be beyond human understanding.</p>
<p>(Jack: my former supervisor says not to worry as journals often do take an age. Also the journal in question has changed publishers so might be undergoing traumatic upheavals.)</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Allport</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35567</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Allport</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 03:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35567</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I do have a tendency to use â€˜weâ€™ rather more when I think Iâ€™m writing in a more popular register - as in â€˜when we look at this text, we should rememberâ€¦â€™&lt;/i&gt;

I sympathize with the intention here, but the first person plural often seems downright presumptuous to me in such situations. As Tonto says: "Who's this 'we', kemosabe?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I do have a tendency to use â€˜weâ€™ rather more when I think Iâ€™m writing in a more popular register - as in â€˜when we look at this text, we should rememberâ€¦â€™</i></p>
<p>I sympathize with the intention here, but the first person plural often seems downright presumptuous to me in such situations. As Tonto says: &#8220;Who&#8217;s this &#8216;we&#8217;, kemosabe?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lightfoot</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35561</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lightfoot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 00:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35561</guid>
		<description>Is it too clichÃ©d to appeal to &lt;a href="http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit" rel="nofollow"&gt;Orwell&lt;/a&gt; at this point? On how many of the occasions where you're tempted to write "I ..." or "we ..." are the expressions just redundant verbiage?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it too clichÃ©d to appeal to <a href="http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit" rel="nofollow">Orwell</a> at this point? On how many of the occasions where you&#8217;re tempted to write &#8220;I &#8230;&#8221; or &#8220;we &#8230;&#8221; are the expressions just redundant verbiage?</p>
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		<title>By: Jack McGowan</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35555</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack McGowan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35555</guid>
		<description>Btw, Gavin - not just IMHO, but also on the strength of everything I've been told at various conferences or training sessions - no feedback whatsoever on a submitted article 8 months later is absolutely ridiculous and inexcusable!  Chase 'em up.  Firmly.  I'd be very close to the 'I will have to consider submitting to another journal' stage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Btw, Gavin - not just IMHO, but also on the strength of everything I&#8217;ve been told at various conferences or training sessions - no feedback whatsoever on a submitted article 8 months later is absolutely ridiculous and inexcusable!  Chase &#8216;em up.  Firmly.  I&#8217;d be very close to the &#8216;I will have to consider submitting to another journal&#8217; stage.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Williams</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35551</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35551</guid>
		<description>I tell them that they can use it if they want, but ought to do so sparingly. 'I' often tends to be used around the sort of material that ought not be in a thesis or an article, or even in an essay, so it's often a good marker for paragraphs that are about to have 'True but irrelevant - an unecessary hostage to fortune. Remove.' written next to them in red 'evil supervisor' pen.

But,  'I think this for these reasons, and here's evidence that backs this up', on the other hand, is a justifiable form of words in my opinion - even in a thesis. This might have something to do with the fact that my university explicitly advises students (well, arts students anyway) not to eschew 'I'. It's like a 70s social democracy thang, I reckon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tell them that they can use it if they want, but ought to do so sparingly. &#8216;I&#8217; often tends to be used around the sort of material that ought not be in a thesis or an article, or even in an essay, so it&#8217;s often a good marker for paragraphs that are about to have &#8216;True but irrelevant - an unecessary hostage to fortune. Remove.&#8217; written next to them in red &#8216;evil supervisor&#8217; pen.</p>
<p>But,  &#8216;I think this for these reasons, and here&#8217;s evidence that backs this up&#8217;, on the other hand, is a justifiable form of words in my opinion - even in a thesis. This might have something to do with the fact that my university explicitly advises students (well, arts students anyway) not to eschew &#8216;I&#8217;. It&#8217;s like a 70s social democracy thang, I reckon.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Dresner</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35549</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Dresner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35549</guid>
		<description>Just a technical note: the plug-in actually works through bloglines: I didn't have to come here to vote, just clicked on it in my RSS reader. 

I don't have a problem with the pronoun per se, but that's a weak introduction, which I'm sure you'll fix along the way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a technical note: the plug-in actually works through bloglines: I didn&#8217;t have to come here to vote, just clicked on it in my RSS reader. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t have a problem with the pronoun per se, but that&#8217;s a weak introduction, which I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll fix along the way.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack McGowan</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35542</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack McGowan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jan 2007 19:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/2007/01/21/advice-to-young-well-mid-phd-writers/#comment-35542</guid>
		<description>Actually, having thought about it further, I must correct myself.  I have never used a blatant example of the first person singular.  But it is those horribly passive and tortuous constructions which we all recognise and have all tangled ourselves up in from time to time which make MEGO.  And Gavin is right: it is our more 'theory-driven' colleagues who tend to be more guilty of this.  I think Dan's right - scrap the structure of the sentence and start again.  But it hasn't been a problem which has confronted me very often so far and it has usually sorted itself out - somehow - by the final draft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, having thought about it further, I must correct myself.  I have never used a blatant example of the first person singular.  But it is those horribly passive and tortuous constructions which we all recognise and have all tangled ourselves up in from time to time which make MEGO.  And Gavin is right: it is our more &#8216;theory-driven&#8217; colleagues who tend to be more guilty of this.  I think Dan&#8217;s right - scrap the structure of the sentence and start again.  But it hasn&#8217;t been a problem which has confronted me very often so far and it has usually sorted itself out - somehow - by the final draft.</p>
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