Comments on: Air control in pictures http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-pictures/ Airpower and British society, 1908-1941 Tue, 07 Oct 2008 09:51:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-pictures/#comment-79184 Brett Holman Tue, 29 Jul 2008 11:05:29 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-action/#comment-79184 I'm not sure that I understand your point, but in any case I don't agree that such a mistake excuses anyone else from making the same mistake. I’m not sure that I understand your point, but in any case I don’t agree that such a mistake excuses anyone else from making the same mistake.

]]> By: Dr Nameq Rashid http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-pictures/#comment-78789 Dr Nameq Rashid Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:11:18 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-action/#comment-78789 If British airforce dropped bombs on Sulaimanyah in 1924, then why should I blame the others for doing the same mistake. It seems the British army who first oppend the road to others to bombard the Kurdish people. If British airforce dropped bombs on Sulaimanyah in 1924, then why should I blame the others for doing the same mistake. It seems the British army who first oppend the road to others to bombard the Kurdish people.

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-pictures/#comment-67801 Brett Holman Sat, 05 Jan 2008 12:03:31 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-action/#comment-67801 Yes, the subject of air control was certainly controversial from time to time back in Britain, even into the 1930s; at least two former RAF officers criticised it too (L. E. O. Charlton, Philip Mumford). But these are still British viewpoints -- which is why I'm pleased to learn something about the Kurdish experience of air control. Yes, the subject of air control was certainly controversial from time to time back in Britain, even into the 1930s; at least two former RAF officers criticised it too (L. E. O. Charlton, Philip Mumford). But these are still British viewpoints — which is why I’m pleased to learn something about the Kurdish experience of air control.

]]> By: Karzan http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-pictures/#comment-67647 Karzan Wed, 02 Jan 2008 17:17:38 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-action/#comment-67647 you can find on the same pages a copy of a column from The Evening Standard,London January 30, 1924 disapproving of the bombings, and a letter (31, January)from the secretary of state for the colonies to the High Commissioner of Iraq mentioning he can't defend those acts in Parliament and asking him to consider "alternative policy by which actual resort to bomb-dropping would be avoided". This suggests that the bombing had great affects that it would be a subject of newspapers in London. I should say again that I am not sure if this bombing is the same as the ones with pictures here, they probably had bombed Sulaimania several times. you can find on the same pages a copy of a column from The Evening Standard,London January 30, 1924 disapproving of the bombings, and a letter (31, January)from the secretary of state for the colonies to the High Commissioner of Iraq mentioning he can’t defend those acts in Parliament and asking him to consider “alternative policy by which actual resort to bomb-dropping would be avoided”. This suggests that the bombing had great affects that it would be a subject of newspapers in London. I should say again that I am not sure if this bombing is the same as the ones with pictures here, they probably had bombed Sulaimania several times.

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-pictures/#comment-67624 Brett Holman Wed, 02 Jan 2008 08:48:45 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-action/#comment-67624 Thanks very much, Karzan! Up till now, everything I've seen about air control has been from or else about the British point of view. I've never read a Kurdish or other account of what the actual effects were, so this is very valuable. It's interesting that the account suggests that it wasn't until the 5th raid that a warning was dropped. The British set great store in these warnings -- it was their defence against charges of inhumanity towards civilians who were, after all, placed in their care (i.e., as a League of Nations mandate). But -- unless this was the very first time such warnings were issued, which is possible -- this means that the RAF were at best inconsistent about giving out the warnings. On the other hand, it also shows that the warnings were heeded, at least sometimes, so they did work. Very interesting -- I'll have to look up the book. Thanks again. Thanks very much, Karzan! Up till now, everything I’ve seen about air control has been from or else about the British point of view. I’ve never read a Kurdish or other account of what the actual effects were, so this is very valuable.

It’s interesting that the account suggests that it wasn’t until the 5th raid that a warning was dropped. The British set great store in these warnings — it was their defence against charges of inhumanity towards civilians who were, after all, placed in their care (i.e., as a League of Nations mandate). But — unless this was the very first time such warnings were issued, which is possible — this means that the RAF were at best inconsistent about giving out the warnings. On the other hand, it also shows that the warnings were heeded, at least sometimes, so they did work.

Very interesting — I’ll have to look up the book. Thanks again.

]]> By: Karzan http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-pictures/#comment-67589 Karzan Tue, 01 Jan 2008 20:03:21 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-action/#comment-67589 Correction: the interview was in October 1992. It is about a bombing of Sulaimania in 1924 also, but I am not sure if it is the same bombing in these pictures. Shaikh Mahmud was a Kurdish Leader at that time fighting for an autonomous Kurdistan. Sulaimania was the center of his Administration. Correction: the interview was in October 1992. It is about a bombing of Sulaimania in 1924 also, but I am not sure if it is the same bombing in these pictures. Shaikh Mahmud was a Kurdish Leader at that time fighting for an autonomous Kurdistan. Sulaimania was the center of his Administration.

]]> By: Karzan http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-pictures/#comment-67588 Karzan Tue, 01 Jan 2008 19:59:56 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-action/#comment-67588 This is quote is from the book "Kurdistan in the shadow of history" "Three planes came the first time and each one dropped a bomb the size of a roll of hard sugar. The next time, they dropped very heavy bombs, and I remember the houses destroyed. some people were killed in the second bombing, but in the third bombing many were killed. I remember I went to see one of the women, and her hands were cut, and her fingers were not there. Her feet were also cut and her baby was torn, but still she was not died. During the fourth bombing, I was in the street when the planes came. A piece of wall fell on top of me, and I was pinned under the wall, and a bone in my back was broken. since then I have had a limp. During the fifth bombing, the British dropped papers announcing the bombing. so Shaikh Mahmud and all the people deserted the town. Those people who backed shaikh Mahmud did not dare to go back to the city. We lived outsides in the villages. I lived with my father in a village close by and did not come back to Sulaimania for one year. When we came back, out of ten houses, nine were damaged. Not a single shop remained in the market. All were burned" Interview with Shaikh Fatulla Shaikh Rashid. Living in Sulaimania. 1922 This is quote is from the book “Kurdistan in the shadow of history”
“Three planes came the first time and each one dropped a bomb the size of a roll of hard sugar. The next time, they dropped very heavy bombs, and I remember the houses destroyed. some people were killed in the second bombing, but in the third bombing many were killed.
I remember I went to see one of the women, and her hands were cut, and her fingers were not there. Her feet were also cut and her baby was torn, but still she was not died.
During the fourth bombing, I was in the street when the planes came. A piece of wall fell on top of me, and I was pinned under the wall, and a bone in my back was broken. since then I have had a limp.
During the fifth bombing, the British dropped papers announcing the bombing. so Shaikh Mahmud and all the people deserted the town. Those people who backed shaikh Mahmud did not dare to go back to the city. We lived outsides in the villages. I lived with my father in a village close by and did not come back to Sulaimania for one year.
When we came back, out of ten houses, nine were damaged. Not a single shop remained in the market. All were burned”
Interview with Shaikh Fatulla Shaikh Rashid. Living in Sulaimania. 1922

]]> By: Airminded · Ello, ello, ello, what’s all this then? http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-pictures/#comment-55195 Airminded · Ello, ello, ello, what’s all this then? Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:03:57 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-action/#comment-55195 [...] RAF air control policies — the use of airpower in internal security roles — are, according to [...] [...] RAF air control policies — the use of airpower in internal security roles — are, according to [...]

]]> By: Ron Stempfer http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-pictures/#comment-46587 Ron Stempfer Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:32:11 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-action/#comment-46587 Fantastic, I have been searching for photos of RAF Hinaidi as I am researching my father-in-law's RAF History, he was posted there in 1930, I am also looking for more photos of the Barrack areas. Fantastic, I have been searching for photos of RAF Hinaidi as I am researching my father-in-law’s RAF History, he was posted there in 1930, I am also looking for more photos of the Barrack areas.

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-pictures/#comment-9417 Brett Holman Wed, 29 Nov 2006 03:58:27 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/14/air-control-in-action/#comment-9417 You probably saw the <a href="http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/" rel="nofollow">post</a> (and comments) where we discussed the Churchill/Iraq/gas thing ... my conclusion at the moment is that the RAF didn't use gas there, but the Army may have. Anything you could add would be most appreciated! Also, I'd love to know if your wife is aware of any folk memories of the RAF bombing of the Kurds? Sadly, of course, her people have more recent tragedies to remember, so I wouldn't be surprised if it has been forgotten. But you never know. You probably saw the post (and comments) where we discussed the Churchill/Iraq/gas thing … my conclusion at the moment is that the RAF didn’t use gas there, but the Army may have. Anything you could add would be most appreciated!

Also, I’d love to know if your wife is aware of any folk memories of the RAF bombing of the Kurds? Sadly, of course, her people have more recent tragedies to remember, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it has been forgotten. But you never know.

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