Comments on: Interwar use of chemical weapons http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/ Airpower and British society, 1908-1941 Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:31:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-4079 Brett Holman Sun, 22 Oct 2006 05:57:31 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-4079 Chris: I've had a look at Haldane's <em>The Insurrection in Mesopotamia</em> now. I couldn't see any reference to gas. But it's actually all <a href="http://www.dean.usma.edu/HISTORY/web03/resources/resource%20pages/Mesopotamia/insurrection_mesopotamia.html" rel="nofollow">online</a>, so have a look yourself! From a few hints online, it seems it might be the case that Haldane requested chemical munitions in around September 1920. Chapter 18 deals with his correspondence with Churchill, so might have been a likely candidate, but nothing there that I can see. The answer may be in the PRO. BTW, David Omissi <a href="http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/history/1991/0119britbombers.htm" rel="nofollow">did say</a> that Haldane used gas in Iraq, and he should probably know ... Chris:

I’ve had a look at Haldane’s The Insurrection in Mesopotamia now. I couldn’t see any reference to gas. But it’s actually all online, so have a look yourself!

From a few hints online, it seems it might be the case that Haldane requested chemical munitions in around September 1920. Chapter 18 deals with his correspondence with Churchill, so might have been a likely candidate, but nothing there that I can see. The answer may be in the PRO.

BTW, David Omissi did say that Haldane used gas in Iraq, and he should probably know …

]]> By: Airminded · Pick a date, any date http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3755 Airminded · Pick a date, any date Mon, 16 Oct 2006 17:17:53 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3755 [...] In a comment to an earlier post, Jonathan Dresner quite legitimately took exception to my use of the term ‘interwar’ to refer to the period 1919-1939: From an Asian history perspective, the Japanese use of chemical weapons in China isn’t really “interwar,” as major combat operations began in late ‘37 (leading to the Nanjing Massacre, etc.) and ran continuously through ‘45. [...] [...] In a comment to an earlier post, Jonathan Dresner quite legitimately took exception to my use of the term ‘interwar’ to refer to the period 1919-1939: From an Asian history perspective, the Japanese use of chemical weapons in China isn’t really “interwar,” as major combat operations began in late ‘37 (leading to the Nanjing Massacre, etc.) and ran continuously through ‘45. [...]

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3754 Brett Holman Sun, 15 Oct 2006 16:53:00 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3754 I don't mean to lead you on -- I said it was long, not interesting :) And actually, it's not even that long ... I don’t mean to lead you on — I said it was long, not interesting :)

And actually, it’s not even that long …

]]> By: Jonathan Dresner http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3749 Jonathan Dresner Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:06:53 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3749 Not that the aerial bombing wasn't problematic enough, of course.... I'm looking forward to see what else you have to say about the Japan/China theater! Not that the aerial bombing wasn’t problematic enough, of course….

I’m looking forward to see what else you have to say about the Japan/China theater!

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3745 Brett Holman Sat, 14 Oct 2006 14:28:03 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3745 Thanks, Chris. It's in the State Library here ... I can check it too, if I remember. And thanks Jonathan. I found it: Priya Satia, "The defense of inhumanity: air control and the British idea of Arabia", <em>American Historical Review</em> 111 (2006), 16-51 -- online <a href="http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ahr/111.1/satia.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">here</a>. The gas issue is mentioned in a footnote (82), where it is argued that the gas claim is based on a misreading of statements made by, e.g., T. E. Lawrence. Thanks, Chris. It’s in the State Library here … I can check it too, if I remember.

And thanks Jonathan. I found it: Priya Satia, “The defense of inhumanity: air control and the British idea of Arabia”, American Historical Review 111 (2006), 16-51 — online here. The gas issue is mentioned in a footnote (82), where it is argued that the gas claim is based on a misreading of statements made by, e.g., T. E. Lawrence.

]]> By: Jonathan Dresner http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3742 Jonathan Dresner Fri, 13 Oct 2006 21:45:30 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3742 There was an article in the AHR not long ago about the use of airpower in British Iraq, wasn't there? Fascinating stuff, I thought, but I don't remember if the use of gas was addressed. There was an article in the AHR not long ago about the use of airpower in British Iraq, wasn’t there? Fascinating stuff, I thought, but I don’t remember if the use of gas was addressed.

]]> By: Chris Williams http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3740 Chris Williams Fri, 13 Oct 2006 13:33:43 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3740 My source appears to be the memoirs of General Aylmer Haldane , which were reprinted as INSURRECTION IN MESOPOTAMIA 1920 (ISBN: 1904897169) in 1990. Abebooks has one for £28 which is about twenty quid more than I'm prepared to pay for it. It's in the BL, though, so I'll check it out next time I'm there. My source appears to be the memoirs of General Aylmer Haldane , which were reprinted as INSURRECTION IN MESOPOTAMIA 1920 (ISBN: 1904897169) in 1990. Abebooks has one for £28 which is about twenty quid more than I’m prepared to pay for it. It’s in the BL, though, so I’ll check it out next time I’m there.

]]> By: Alan Allport http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3739 Alan Allport Fri, 13 Oct 2006 12:18:26 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3739 In interwar France the Armee de l'Air was regarded by conservatives as 'The Service of the Left', because it had been created partly to counterbalance the reactionary Army. Pierre Cot, who was the Popular Front's Air Minister, was probably the most influential holder of that position between the wars. In interwar France the Armee de l’Air was regarded by conservatives as ‘The Service of the Left’, because it had been created partly to counterbalance the reactionary Army. Pierre Cot, who was the Popular Front’s Air Minister, was probably the most influential holder of that position between the wars.

]]> By: Alex http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3738 Alex Fri, 13 Oct 2006 12:05:16 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3738 Perhaps a killer argument regarding the Churchill/gas claim is when gas began to be delivered from planes. I don't think it ever was in the First World War - am I right? Perhaps a killer argument regarding the Churchill/gas claim is when gas began to be delivered from planes. I don’t think it ever was in the First World War - am I right?

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3737 Brett Holman Fri, 13 Oct 2006 11:44:12 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/10/13/interwar-use-of-chemical-weapons/#comment-3737 Jonathan: My answer to you got long, so I think I'll work it into a post! Chris: It's hard to think of many fighter pilots who were left-wing. Other sorts of pilots, sure ... I see you already mentioned Charlton. Another who comes to mind is Philip Mumford, RFC flight instructor (and later RAF intelligence); judging from his <em>Humanity, Air Power and War</em> (1936) he was left-wing (not Marxist though). Who else ... well, Mosley was in the RFC and the Labour Party before he was a fascist :) Getting further away from the air, Tom Wintringham was an RFC erk during the war ... ok, I got nothing. Interesting question, though. On gas, if the Army used it in Iraq, then that would count for the purposes of this post. Do you have a reference? I also doubt that it was used from the air, because although air control was often discussed by my guys, none of them ever mentioned the use of gas. And you'd think that they would. Then again, in their (fewer and shorter) discussions of Spanish and French air control, they don't seem to mention gas either. Maybe they actually didn't use it either? Jonathan:

My answer to you got long, so I think I’ll work it into a post!

Chris:

It’s hard to think of many fighter pilots who were left-wing. Other sorts of pilots, sure … I see you already mentioned Charlton. Another who comes to mind is Philip Mumford, RFC flight instructor (and later RAF intelligence); judging from his Humanity, Air Power and War (1936) he was left-wing (not Marxist though). Who else … well, Mosley was in the RFC and the Labour Party before he was a fascist :) Getting further away from the air, Tom Wintringham was an RFC erk during the war … ok, I got nothing. Interesting question, though.

On gas, if the Army used it in Iraq, then that would count for the purposes of this post. Do you have a reference? I also doubt that it was used from the air, because although air control was often discussed by my guys, none of them ever mentioned the use of gas. And you’d think that they would. Then again, in their (fewer and shorter) discussions of Spanish and French air control, they don’t seem to mention gas either. Maybe they actually didn’t use it either?

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