Comments on: Am I fake or not? http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/ Airpower and British society, 1908-1941 Wed, 09 Jul 2008 01:58:21 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Airminded · Trouble at Millwall http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-2732 Airminded · Trouble at Millwall Fri, 08 Sep 2006 12:22:11 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-2732 [...] In a comment to an earlier post, Alan pointed out that it has been claimed that the photo I used was a propaganda fake. As I have previously discussed the subject of fake combat photos, I was appropriately mortified at the thought of having been taken in myself! So let’s have a closer look at it … [...] [...] In a comment to an earlier post, Alan pointed out that it has been claimed that the photo I used was a propaganda fake. As I have previously discussed the subject of fake combat photos, I was appropriately mortified at the thought of having been taken in myself! So let’s have a closer look at it … [...]

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1988 Brett Holman Fri, 11 Aug 2006 13:25:45 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1988 Thanks Godfrey. I wonder when that raid was ... maybe the one of <a href="http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t41962.html" rel="nofollow">23 September 1916</a>? Thanks Godfrey. I wonder when that raid was … maybe the one of 23 September 1916?

]]> By: Godfrey Simpson http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1922 Godfrey Simpson Wed, 02 Aug 2006 14:58:32 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1922 My mother described one that came out of the clouds to bomb a pub and bakers shop in Old Ford in the first world war. She was 18 years old at this time. My mother described one that came out of the clouds to bomb a pub and bakers shop in Old Ford in the first world war. She was 18 years old at this time.

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1901 Brett Holman Fri, 28 Jul 2006 05:38:11 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1901 Thanks Allan! I found a listing of the photos and a bit more info on Archer <a href="http://specialcollections.wichita.edu/collections/ms/88-10/88-10-B.HTML" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Thanks Allan! I found a listing of the photos and a bit more info on Archer here.

]]> By: Allan Janus http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1895 Allan Janus Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:08:11 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1895 The "dogfight photograph" is from the book "Death in the Air" by Anon., though it was later "revealed" to be the work of "Mrs Cockburn-Lange", widow of an RFC pilot. It was actually the work of Wesley Archer, an American who had flown in the RFC. The National Air and Space Museum has a collection of his photographs, including pictures of the models he used in the dogfight shots. Peter Grosz and Karl Schneide wrote an article for Air and Space Magazine about the pictures back in 1985. I remember being unconvinced by the photo when I ran across it when I was 12 years old. The “dogfight photograph” is from the book “Death in the Air” by Anon., though it was later “revealed” to be the work of “Mrs Cockburn-Lange”, widow of an RFC pilot. It was actually the work of Wesley Archer, an American who had flown in the RFC. The National Air and Space Museum has a collection of his photographs, including pictures of the models he used in the dogfight shots. Peter Grosz and Karl Schneide wrote an article for Air and Space Magazine about the pictures back in 1985. I remember being unconvinced by the photo when I ran across it when I was 12 years old.

]]> By: Graham Bell http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1893 Graham Bell Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:01:31 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1893 Very good. Agree with David Tiley on Zeppelins. Given their surprising airspeed and rate of climb, I wonder if there were more low altitude excursions than just for navigation checks ..... perhaps even a precursoer of the tree-top run-in for a helicopter ground attack. Don't underestimate the ingenuity of early 20th Century photographers though; some amazing photos were taken with old bellows cameras. Very good. Agree with David Tiley on Zeppelins. Given their surprising airspeed and rate of climb, I wonder if there were more low altitude excursions than just for navigation checks ….. perhaps even a precursoer of the tree-top run-in for a helicopter ground attack.

Don’t underestimate the ingenuity of early 20th Century photographers though; some amazing photos were taken with old bellows cameras.

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1887 Brett Holman Wed, 26 Jul 2006 16:08:02 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1887 Yes, the lowness is very suspicious; however there are a few accounts of Zeppelins coming down low, eg below cloud cover to check where they were. But it was a very dangerous thing to do indeed, and highly unusual. I think you're right about them being pre-war pictures; I did find some pre-war photos of a Zeppelin which looked very similar to the top photo, except that they were taken during the day. (And of course the fact that they are night photos is the biggest problem to begin with ...) My guess is that the fake is a retouched negative of a daylight photo. On the second one, the projections out the side are very strange. Maybe for flags, as you say -- perhaps for communicating with troops on the ground? I don't know if this was standard procedure or not. Yes, the lowness is very suspicious; however there are a few accounts of Zeppelins coming down low, eg below cloud cover to check where they were. But it was a very dangerous thing to do indeed, and highly unusual.

I think you’re right about them being pre-war pictures; I did find some pre-war photos of a Zeppelin which looked very similar to the top photo, except that they were taken during the day. (And of course the fact that they are night photos is the biggest problem to begin with …) My guess is that the fake is a retouched negative of a daylight photo.

On the second one, the projections out the side are very strange. Maybe for flags, as you say — perhaps for communicating with troops on the ground? I don’t know if this was standard procedure or not.

]]> By: david tiley http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1875 david tiley Tue, 25 Jul 2006 03:24:01 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1875 Much too low. The Zeppelins came in at 15,000 feet; later in the war it was much higher. With that first photo, the beams almost look like crayon, although it could have been a pre-war publicity snap. With the second one, there are strange things like masts sticking out from the sides, which I guess were used for flags, one of which is visible on the left. So, again, a peacetime photo redoctored. I think the artillery couldn't touch them because the shells went straight through. There were 18 ballonets inside the bigger ones which could take a lot of damage. Once they put tracer into the ammunition belts on the fighters it was all over, red rover and there was no defence but height. Eventually the Germans didnt even put guns on the airships. Those planes are a bunch of models dangling together in a studio. Although the fighters got pretty close to hit each other, I imagine any manoevering would have created quite large spaces between the dogfighting pairs. Much too low. The Zeppelins came in at 15,000 feet; later in the war it was much higher. With that first photo, the beams almost look like crayon, although it could have been a pre-war publicity snap. With the second one, there are strange things like masts sticking out from the sides, which I guess were used for flags, one of which is visible on the left. So, again, a peacetime photo redoctored.

I think the artillery couldn’t touch them because the shells went straight through. There were 18 ballonets inside the bigger ones which could take a lot of damage.

Once they put tracer into the ammunition belts on the fighters it was all over, red rover and there was no defence but height. Eventually the Germans didnt even put guns on the airships.

Those planes are a bunch of models dangling together in a studio. Although the fighters got pretty close to hit each other, I imagine any manoevering would have created quite large spaces between the dogfighting pairs.

]]> By: Hemaworstje http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1621 Hemaworstje Tue, 04 Jul 2006 02:20:46 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1621 good thing i typed baba in google ,found this gem http://www.cicap.org/root/podcast.php and who is in his weird linklist. Hoppa look what popped up , airminded. cute blog , nice links , don't call 911 , i'm gonna rob some links, and yes this gun is fake. good thing i typed baba in google ,found this gem
http://www.cicap.org/root/podcast.php
and who is in his weird linklist.
Hoppa
look what popped up , airminded. cute blog , nice links , don’t call 911 , i’m gonna rob some links, and yes this gun is fake.

]]> By: Brett Holman http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1613 Brett Holman Mon, 03 Jul 2006 13:07:02 +0000 http://airminded.org/2006/06/30/am-i-fake-or-not/#comment-1613 Yes, I often notice photographs that have obviously been retouched or altered in some way. I wonder if it was obvious to people at the time? Or are we today just more experienced in interpreting photos? I incline to the latter view, given the example of the <a href="http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/photos/cottingley.html" rel="nofollow">Cottingley fairies</a> ... Yes, I often notice photographs that have obviously been retouched or altered in some way. I wonder if it was obvious to people at the time? Or are we today just more experienced in interpreting photos? I incline to the latter view, given the example of the Cottingley fairies …

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