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	<title>Comments on: Jet aircraft of the Belle Époque</title>
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	<link>http://airminded.org/2005/10/07/jet-aircraft-of-the-belle-epoque/</link>
	<description>Airpower and British society, 1908-1941</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2005/10/07/jet-aircraft-of-the-belle-epoque/#comment-80916</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:29:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=50#comment-80916</guid>
		<description>Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: ming bucibei</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2005/10/07/jet-aircraft-of-the-belle-epoque/#comment-80892</link>
		<dc:creator>ming bucibei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 03:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=50#comment-80892</guid>
		<description>colanda's engine compressed air and then fuel was injected into the compressed air stream in tubes along the side of the aircraft providing ~220 lbs of thrust

see g harry stine  "the coanda effect" analog  magazine july 1984 
pgs 62-75

"....when operating , the compressor sucks in air  and compresses it inside the large cylinderical cowling. the engine's exhaust is routed into this compressed air where it's enriched by a spray of raw gasolien and then ignited. the resulting  hot high-speed gases are then ducted to the rear out of two asbestos-lined  jet pipe, one on each side of the molded plywood fuselage... it produced a static thrust od 220 pounds...."

ming</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>colanda&#8217;s engine compressed air and then fuel was injected into the compressed air stream in tubes along the side of the aircraft providing ~220 lbs of thrust</p>
<p>see g harry stine  &#8220;the coanda effect&#8221; analog  magazine july 1984<br />
pgs 62-75</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;.when operating , the compressor sucks in air  and compresses it inside the large cylinderical cowling. the engine&#8217;s exhaust is routed into this compressed air where it&#8217;s enriched by a spray of raw gasolien and then ignited. the resulting  hot high-speed gases are then ducted to the rear out of two asbestos-lined  jet pipe, one on each side of the molded plywood fuselage&#8230; it produced a static thrust od 220 pounds&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>ming</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2005/10/07/jet-aircraft-of-the-belle-epoque/#comment-78103</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 04:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=50#comment-78103</guid>
		<description>Yes, I agree. And as I said in my post, there was just no need for jet propulsion at the time. Interesting about Coand&#259;'s improvisation ... it sounds less like foresight than the lack of it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I agree. And as I said in my post, there was just no need for jet propulsion at the time. Interesting about Coand&#259;&#8217;s improvisation &#8230; it sounds less like foresight than the lack of it!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2005/10/07/jet-aircraft-of-the-belle-epoque/#comment-78003</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 13:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=50#comment-78003</guid>
		<description>From what I picked up researching this many years ago Coanda started with just a ducted fan blowing cold air and when this failed to generate enough force for take off further added the use of buring petrol (gasolene) which did get him off the ground enough to hit a tree! This type of engine with an internal combustion driven compressor) was effectively a forerunner of the WW2 Italian attempts to produce a jet (the prototype of which did fly). The Japanes  also designed a suicide bomber using a similar engine.

All attempts to use the pulse jey as a practical propulsion for a manned aircraft failed (with the possible exception of the 1945 Riechenberg suicide aircraft which was merely a piloted V1) mainly because of the extreme vibration created by this engine. The Germans did build an emergency fighter using two pulse jets but soon abandoned the jets and converted the aircraft into suicide gliders (not deployed). In attempt to boost the performance of the P51D Mustang (to meet the threat of the new jet fighters) the Americans fitted one with pulse jets, one on each wing tip, again vibration caused the abandonment of the project. Putting pulsejets on an aircraft with WW1 construction standards would have been a disaster</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I picked up researching this many years ago Coanda started with just a ducted fan blowing cold air and when this failed to generate enough force for take off further added the use of buring petrol (gasolene) which did get him off the ground enough to hit a tree! This type of engine with an internal combustion driven compressor) was effectively a forerunner of the WW2 Italian attempts to produce a jet (the prototype of which did fly). The Japanes  also designed a suicide bomber using a similar engine.</p>
<p>All attempts to use the pulse jey as a practical propulsion for a manned aircraft failed (with the possible exception of the 1945 Riechenberg suicide aircraft which was merely a piloted V1) mainly because of the extreme vibration created by this engine. The Germans did build an emergency fighter using two pulse jets but soon abandoned the jets and converted the aircraft into suicide gliders (not deployed). In attempt to boost the performance of the P51D Mustang (to meet the threat of the new jet fighters) the Americans fitted one with pulse jets, one on each wing tip, again vibration caused the abandonment of the project. Putting pulsejets on an aircraft with WW1 construction standards would have been a disaster</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2005/10/07/jet-aircraft-of-the-belle-epoque/#comment-75618</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 23:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=50#comment-75618</guid>
		<description>I heard of this technology on Modern Marvels on the History channel.  I was shocked, and longed for more info. I am thrilled that someone took the time to research this technology to assist the rest of us. Thank you for your time and effort. Great read!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard of this technology on Modern Marvels on the History channel.  I was shocked, and longed for more info. I am thrilled that someone took the time to research this technology to assist the rest of us. Thank you for your time and effort. Great read!</p>
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		<title>By: Reliability Engineering</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2005/10/07/jet-aircraft-of-the-belle-epoque/#comment-67951</link>
		<dc:creator>Reliability Engineering</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=50#comment-67951</guid>
		<description>Absolutely fasccinating. I had no idea that there was jet research, let alone actual attempts, happening that early.

Thanks for a very good read, and this information. I will be reading more of your site now that I have found it.

Again, thanks for this enlightening information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely fasccinating. I had no idea that there was jet research, let alone actual attempts, happening that early.</p>
<p>Thanks for a very good read, and this information. I will be reading more of your site now that I have found it.</p>
<p>Again, thanks for this enlightening information.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Holman</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2005/10/07/jet-aircraft-of-the-belle-epoque/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Holman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2005 16:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=50#comment-53</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, well I was about to say that it's not &lt;em&gt;just&lt;/em&gt; a propellor in a tube - at least according to all the online sources I could find. Eg, from the Monash site linked to in the post:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
The "air-reactive engine", invented and built for the first time by Henri Coanda, composed of a piston-engine with four cylinders, cooled with water; it developed 50 HP (Horse-Power) at 1000 rotations/minute. This piston-engine was connected to a rod which rotated the rotation multiplier; the movement was transmitted to the compressor which gained a rotation speed of 4000 rot./min.. In front of the compressor was placed the obturator - a device very similar to that of a photo-camera; this device could be controlled by the pilot such that the quantity of air that entered the compressor could be regulated. The air entered the burning rooms, (that had a ring-like section and were placed on both sides of the fuselage), from which, through some tubes, burned gases of the engine were evacuated and the propulsion force was generated.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
This seems to describe the combustion of a fuel-air mixture, which would provide much more thrust than just a jet of compressed air would.

But, most of the descriptions on the net seem to be drawn from the same source (a post to a Romanian mailing list - although it does list further sources). Now, I've had a look in my Gibbs-Smith and here's what he has to say:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
it was equipped with a reaction propulsion unit consisting of a 50-h.p. Clerget engine driving a large ducted fan in front of it, the latter enclosed in a cowling which covered the nose of the machine and part of the engine: the fan was a simple air-fan driving back the air to form the propulsive 'jet'.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Charles H. Gibbs-Smith, &lt;em&gt;Aviation: An Historical Survey from its Origins to the End of World War II&lt;/em&gt; (London: Her Majesty's Stationery Office, 1985), 156.

This sounds like merely a jet of air! So who is right? It might be that Gibbs-Smith is missing something here, as he says the Coand&#259;-1910 was 'inevitably earth-bound', which suggests to me that he was not aware of Coand&#259;'s claim to have flown it briefly. But going against Gibbs-Smith is a tough call ...

So now I don't know!

PS Interesting about the pulsejet, I didn't realise it was around so early.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, well I was about to say that it&#8217;s not <em>just</em> a propellor in a tube - at least according to all the online sources I could find. Eg, from the Monash site linked to in the post:</p>
<blockquote><p>
The &#8220;air-reactive engine&#8221;, invented and built for the first time by Henri Coanda, composed of a piston-engine with four cylinders, cooled with water; it developed 50 HP (Horse-Power) at 1000 rotations/minute. This piston-engine was connected to a rod which rotated the rotation multiplier; the movement was transmitted to the compressor which gained a rotation speed of 4000 rot./min.. In front of the compressor was placed the obturator - a device very similar to that of a photo-camera; this device could be controlled by the pilot such that the quantity of air that entered the compressor could be regulated. The air entered the burning rooms, (that had a ring-like section and were placed on both sides of the fuselage), from which, through some tubes, burned gases of the engine were evacuated and the propulsion force was generated.
</p></blockquote>
<p>This seems to describe the combustion of a fuel-air mixture, which would provide much more thrust than just a jet of compressed air would.</p>
<p>But, most of the descriptions on the net seem to be drawn from the same source (a post to a Romanian mailing list - although it does list further sources). Now, I&#8217;ve had a look in my Gibbs-Smith and here&#8217;s what he has to say:</p>
<blockquote><p>
it was equipped with a reaction propulsion unit consisting of a 50-h.p. Clerget engine driving a large ducted fan in front of it, the latter enclosed in a cowling which covered the nose of the machine and part of the engine: the fan was a simple air-fan driving back the air to form the propulsive &#8216;jet&#8217;.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Charles H. Gibbs-Smith, <em>Aviation: An Historical Survey from its Origins to the End of World War II</em> (London: Her Majesty&#8217;s Stationery Office, 1985), 156.</p>
<p>This sounds like merely a jet of air! So who is right? It might be that Gibbs-Smith is missing something here, as he says the Coand&#259;-1910 was &#8216;inevitably earth-bound&#8217;, which suggests to me that he was not aware of Coand&#259;&#8217;s claim to have flown it briefly. But going against Gibbs-Smith is a tough call &#8230;</p>
<p>So now I don&#8217;t know!</p>
<p>PS Interesting about the pulsejet, I didn&#8217;t realise it was around so early.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://airminded.org/2005/10/07/jet-aircraft-of-the-belle-epoque/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://airminded.org/?p=50#comment-51</guid>
		<description>The engine seems to be essentially a piston engine and prop in a pipe - I think there would be a goodish gain in aerodynamic efficiency, but the real difference in performance between jet and piston comes from the fact that a turbine is the most efficient prime mover - this is why turboprop propulsion is a good idea, even using the turbine to spin a prop beats the hell out of a piston engine.

Chuck in the advantage of only having one moving part, and you'll see why this design lags a true jet.

Interestingly enough, the pulse-jet (as in the V1) *had* been invented then - it's just never been very efficient. It would have been a far better candidate for a WW1 jet. though. The real limiting factor on gas turbines was metallurgy - everyone had been aware that a gas turbine would be a good idea for years, but the science of high temperature alloys was lagging. Frank Whittle was convinced this was really because nobody had tried to do a gas turbine yet...which turned out to be the truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The engine seems to be essentially a piston engine and prop in a pipe - I think there would be a goodish gain in aerodynamic efficiency, but the real difference in performance between jet and piston comes from the fact that a turbine is the most efficient prime mover - this is why turboprop propulsion is a good idea, even using the turbine to spin a prop beats the hell out of a piston engine.</p>
<p>Chuck in the advantage of only having one moving part, and you&#8217;ll see why this design lags a true jet.</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, the pulse-jet (as in the V1) *had* been invented then - it&#8217;s just never been very efficient. It would have been a far better candidate for a WW1 jet. though. The real limiting factor on gas turbines was metallurgy - everyone had been aware that a gas turbine would be a good idea for years, but the science of high temperature alloys was lagging. Frank Whittle was convinced this was really because nobody had tried to do a gas turbine yet&#8230;which turned out to be the truth.</p>
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